Topic: Lum or Lamu

[cata]

I know that this was already discussed but I found a new argument! Everyone saw the SS (screenshot) that Lum is wearing an yellow apron saying "LUM". Everyone heard Ataru and the other characters calling our Oni Princess "Lam" and "Lamu".

Here's the deal: in Portuguese Language, the words that end with "r" example: "comer" (eat) we say "coo-me-re". We put an "e" after the "r" when we are speaking. And I think it could be the same thing with the Japanese Language. Instead of the "e" they put an "u". =)

I know it's not easy to understand what I'm trying to explain but if it's possible I want to know your thoughts about this. ^^

[GiovaneDinamitardo]

Good to know, Cata: good to know (I'm talking about the portuguese pronounce  ).

Well, in Italy, early in the '80, when "Lum" landed into ours TV, the producers choosen to translate "Lum" with "Lamù" (with a very marked accent on the "u") because it sounded so similar to the french word "L'AMOUR" and also because, in that way, reminded an old song (knew by everybody) who had those lyrics: "PARLAMI D'AMORE, MARIU'/TUTTA LA MIA VITA SEI TU..." (translated: "speak to me about love, little Mary/you hold all my life..."

In this way was so easy to make this simple association: "speak to me about love, Lamù.... "

That's why in Italy nobody call her with the names "Lum", "Rum", "Lam" or "La mu": for us her name is <<really>> Lamù

[UruseiNeo]

having been taking a Japanese course for the past month, here is what I have to tell you.

first, they don't technically have an "L" for anything. They use "R" sounds instead. It actually sounds very much like an L, what I mean is that it isn't a STRONG "r" that is used, that's why "l" is acceptable.

secondly, these are the five "r" characters: Ra, Ri, Ru, Re, Ro. simple right? well they're pronounced a little different than you might think.

Ra: Raa
Ri: Ree (what? that's different!)
Ru: Roo (Again, different)
Re: Ray (probably the most unexpected pronunciation)
Ro: Row

Phonetically, if they used the "Ru" character it would sound like "Room" thus the closest thing to the beginning part in "LUM" would be "Ra" but you already guessed that, right?

Finally, and this is SO important, with the exception of "N" there are NO CHARACTERS that end in a consonant letter. Therefore, writing the "m" at the end of "Lum" is IMPOSSIBLE. The character "Mu" hides the additional vowel sound the best. (Think of the options)

-----------------------
So, in conclusion, the characters "Ra" and "Mu" are used to spell Lum's name. But in my opinion, Lum, Rum, Lamu, and Ramu are ALL technically correct depending on how you pronounce it.

[FallinG_StaR]

Oh... Domo arigatoo Neo-sensei...

[veehive]

Congratulations to you on undertaking the study of Nihongo! Will you be changing your screen name to うる星におう

がんばつて　!!
ミツケンイ　デイヴェド

[UruseiNeo]

I would have used the "ne" character instead of "ni" because although using "ni" sounds exactly the same, "ne" is still acceptable. For example, Neo Spacians ^_^

did you say ganbatte? I dunno what that means

and I can't read Katakana.

Where did you get these characters from?

[veehive]

I would have used the "ne" character instead of "ni" because although using "ni" sounds exactly the same, "ne" is still acceptable. For example, Neo Spacians ^_^

I went with "ni" because "ne" is pronounced nay and is less suited to reproduce "nee-ohh" ... to my ear, anyways.

did you say ganbatte? I dunno what that means

and I can't read Katakana.

I did.

And, if that were true then how did you know that was "ganbatte"?

From the verb ganberu meaning to persist; it's actually "Hang In There" but more generally interpreted as "Good Luck".

Where did you get these characters from?

IF you have the Japanese Language Pack already installed in your computer you can configure it to switch between English and Japanese. This web page explains how: http://greggman.com/japan/xp-ime/xp-ime.htm . It's a VERY clumsy interface to use -- you're typing in phonetically and in romanji and have to stop and figure out which character to choose, and you have to change font size every time you go to use a "small-tsu" (oh! for the elegence and simplicity of a Japanese keyboard!) ... but it's at least SOME way to produce nihongo on our PC's.

[UruseiNeo]

I think "Nay-Oh" sounds close enough. Again, that's how Neo is supposed to be spelled, I believe, cause that's how they actually pronounced it ^_^

did you say ganbatte? I dunno what that means

and I can't read Katakana.

I did.

And, if that were true then how did you know that was "ganbatte"?

Simple, you wrote "Ganbatte" in HIRAGANA, which is NOT the same as Katakana. I know Hiragana, you also used Hiragana to write my name.

So what did the rest of it say?

[veehive]

Ha! Caught me! Good one. Concentrating on typing the right syllables in I forgot I did it (by luck correctly) in Hiragana. I sit corrected.

mi-(small-tsu)-ke-n-ni  de-i-ve-do
David McKenney

[UruseiNeo]

for names, you generally have a dot to separate the first and last name. Also, I believe since it's an english name, you can put it first name first last name last.

[FallinG_StaR]

Hmm... I think I got lost in translation... this went from a simple discussion about pronunciation to an all out Japanese lesson... XD


Uátashi uá nihondjin dê-se...

[UruseiNeo]

is that Portuguese?

[FallinG_StaR]

No... Try again... XD

[UruseiNeo]

I'm pretty sure it's not English or Japanese, so... Spanish? French?

[FallinG_StaR]

So... your not familiar with... Rōmaji???

"The earliest Japanese romanization system was based on the orthography of Portuguese. It was developed around 1548 by a Japanese Catholic named Yajiro. Jesuit presses used the system in a series of printed Catholic books so that missionaries could preach and teach their converts without learning to read Japanese orthography."

So lets say its Portuguese and japanese... LoL

[Kroptik]

Wow, so Romanji was created because of the Portuguese?

You just raised my nationalism self-esteem.

[veehive]

As well it should be, Kroptik. As well it should be. :Y

A valuable lesson! Thank you, FallinG_Star! _/-\o_

(and, thanks also to you, UruseiNeo, for the tips. Gonna have to look for that dot I know it's in this keyboard somewhere ... anyone have a prybar and a hammer on 'em? )

[UruseiNeo]

So... your not familiar with... Rōmaji???

"The earliest Japanese romanization system was based on the orthography of Portuguese. It was developed around 1548 by a Japanese Catholic named Yajiro. Jesuit presses used the system in a series of printed Catholic books so that missionaries could preach and teach their converts without learning to read Japanese orthography."

So lets say its Portuguese and japanese... LoL

I didn't think it was japanese cuz you spelled some stuff wrong, there were accent thingies, and the sentence didn't end correctly.

[FallinG_StaR]

That's because its portuguese romaji... that's how we learn it here... LoL

Obviously english doesn't use the "thingies" on top of letters... XD

[veehive]

Part of the "lesson": Romanji can be different depending on the intended target audience! Which makes perfect sense as each "translator" (from the Japanese scripts to Romanji) will base their spelling of it on their native language.

(I really DO love learning things like this! Thanks again and again, FallinG_StaR!)

[FallinG_StaR]

No problem... Wikipedia... sure helps... And I spend lots of time there... to learn new things every day... XD

[Kroptik]

That's because its portuguese romaji... that's how we learn it here... LoL

Obviously english doesn't use the "thingies" on top of letters... XD

That explains why "Watashi" isn't spelled right. But I never knew Romanji varied with the target audience. :O

[cata]

So basically my theory was right?!?! =S Thank you UruseiNeo, Veehive and Falling for the Japanese and Portuguese lessons! ^^

[UruseiNeo]

That's because its portuguese romaji... that's how we learn it here... LoL

Obviously english doesn't use the "thingies" on top of letters... XD

That explains why "Watashi" isn't spelled right. But I never knew Romanji varied with the target audience. :O

Spelled Nihonjin wrong too. He had a "d" in it. Also ended the sentence wrong, it should end with "desu"

XD How many forum topics have I pointed out that most of the sentences end in "desu" lol

[FallinG_StaR]

Hmm... Do I need to point out that I used a "How to speak japanese" portuguese book?

And not an English one?

For us portuguese we do use diferent grammar and phonetics... for example the "s" in desu we would read like "dezu" so we need to make it like "dê-se" to sound/speak it correctly...

Now I know where the japanese got their weird vocabulary... XD

[cata]

Dude the portuguese word "tempero" (culinária) in japanese they say "tempura". xD

[Urusei0Yatsura]

I've watched a few random UY eps recently episodes and it appears that the characters refer to her as both Lum and Lamu.

Offtopic: There is no such thing as a Japanese keyboard, they all use regular QWERTY keyboards and type in the syllabillic sounds using the common 26 western characters (the syllabilic sounds for Japanese using A-Z letters is called romaji) that then turns it into katakana, hiragana and kanjii. The reason for this is because there are so many letters and they have three different alphabets the Japanese (four if you count romaji)

I have found a free download for a word processor that was recommended by Sussex University that is Windows compatible; Linux and Unix versions are also available. This is how all regular keyboards in Japan work.


http://www.physics.ucla.edu/~grosenth/jwpce.html

[spotless]

well , i know her as lum and lamu.

in japanese her name sounds "lamu" but there are some episodes that they say "lum"
what the hell, she's lum.

[cata]

Offtopic: There is no such thing as a Japanese keyboard, they all use regular QWERTY keyboards and type in the syllabillic sounds using the common 26 western characters (the syllabilic sounds for Japanese using A-Z letters is called romaji) that then turns it into katakana, hiragana and kanjii. The reason for this is because there are so many letters and they have three different alphabets the Japanese (four if you count romaji)

Don't get offended but do you have proof?


And she's Lum!!!! She has an appron with "LUM" on it!!! It's pronunciation is LAMU! Like, my name is "CATARINA" but it's pronounce is "Cuh-tuh-ree-nuh"

[veehive]

The name "Lum" is partially taken from Cino-American bikini model Agnes Lum (who was popular in Japan at that time). "Lum" is a foreign word to the Japanese, so to pronounce it they modify its pronunciation to suit the Japanese tongue (so-to-speak), using "ra" (ラ) and "mu" (ム) to produce the "ramu" we hear if we listen to the Japanese language tracks.

[spotless]

The name "Lum" is partially taken from Cino-American bikini model Agnes Lum (who was popular in Japan at that time). "Lum" is a foreign word to the Japanese, so to pronounce it they modify its pronunciation to suit the Japanese tongue (so-to-speak), using "ra" (ラ) and "mu" (ム) to produce the "ramu" we hear if we listen to the Japanese language tracks.

mmm maybe it is, maybe not.
but good info anyway.

[cata]

Veehive is right.