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Author Topic: My turn  (Read 244 times)

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Offline Oldfan

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My turn
« on: July 13, 2017, 06:21:59 am »
In some ways, I feel like I'm 30 years too late to the game, as in 2018 it'll be 30 years since Movie 5 was aired and we were forced to say goodbye to the characters. Yes, they live on in our hearts, dreams and imaginations, but there's no new adventures to take us along on - we have to invent them ourselves.

As for Lum herself, despite many definitions of a perfect woman, Lum perhaps defines it in a way that other creators have tried to emulate and failed to do.

She's beautiful, without having to be drawn in such a way that emphasizes it. It doesn't matter that she has fangs and horns, and that she can fly and hurl lightning. She is like a star  in the nighttime sky or the sun on a clear day - she's the brightest point to focus on.

She's sexy, without being exaggerated, and yet she's fundamentally innocent enough that her mischievous side is as much a surprise as a welcome addition. In fact, just hearing and seeing her innocence in action brings a smile to me specifically even if I'm feeling pretty low for whatever reason.

She's brave, smart and funny, and she carries a single-minded devotion that you don't see in people that much. Being older (the handle Oldfan carries a meaning to it), to find someone like that, back then or now was and is miraculous thing.

And despite the fact she is my favorite female character, period, I can't help but feel bad for her. By the end of the manga/anime she knows Ataru loves her, even if he doesn't say it in words, but she didn't get her happy ending.

She's frozen in time, unless for some reason Rumiko Takahashi decides to let someone continue the story.

In the movie Beautiful Dreamer, at the 11 minute mark, you hear in her words what her dream is, she loves Darling and wants to spend the rest of her life with him, his family and their friends. That wish is accompanied by a special version of music that isn't on the Music Box CD or the soundtrack to the album, for lack of a better way to say it, I call it 'Lum's Dream' and it hits hard depending on my mood at least.

I blame Mamoru Oshii for the creation of that music, because any TV show episode that had her think of her dreams, it was used. Sadly enough, I kept track of it's usage, because despite the fact that I am a guy with a wonderful woman who's been with me for 10 years now, no matter my mood when I hear that music I get misty eyed. (I still get misty eyed with The Final Chapter too)

Episodes: 122, 144, 148, 152, 157, 158, 178 and 195 (US counts - the Japanese Blurays work differently and go to 218) all have uses of it - whenever she thinks of her dreams. In Episode 195 when she kisses Ataru finally in a mostly willing kiss we get that music as it feels like that is the only dream that comes true.

It's also played in 2 OVAs, Inaba the Dream Maker and Date with a Spirit, but not for her specifically.

I do have to say that her voice actress, Fumi Hirano defined Lum in such a way that I don't think it could be repeated, and it doesn't hurt that Fumi herself is still rather stunning at 62 years old.

I rambled on long enough though, that's why I love Lum so much, she's essentially a perfect character given an imperfect finale. However, I will add this, when I hunted down how to get the Japanese Blurays for the show (Only You I had to also get in DVD since it's uncut there), searches brought up FanFic too.

I was never into FanFic, but one creator and their 3 stories really stood out, those by crazyjw18 - who I see was on this forum at some point. Their rendition of the progression of the Lum/Ataru relationship was so well done, I'm not ashamed to say I used nefarious Chrome Extensions to save it to a document.

If I can't have an author created ending, that one just about fits the bill. If you've never read it, and are of a mind to do so here's the link to the first story: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/4118620/1/Lum-Gets-Grounded

Now I am done, I have to finish downloading my Japanese Digital Tankobans of the Manga and that finishes my 'collection', but not my love of the only series I ever chased down.

Edit: While I might be new here, the concept of UY isn't, so when I have time I read old posts to see what used to be discussed. Character Discussion and Defining - in the FanFic section was PAINFUL to read.

/soapbox on
Simply put, you cannot use modern psychology to define characters that were written 30 years and more ago, within the bounds of another culture. Nor can or should you write things that are so OOC to a character it makes them another person entirely, despite your 'noblest' of intentions. Speaking AS a writer, it's not flattering to the author/creator or the character(s).
/soapbox off
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 02:31:04 am by Oldfan »
I remain unhappy that they didn't give the right closure to the relationship and we have to 'decide for ourselves' if Lum and Ataru got together.

Offline Seiryu

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Re: My turn
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2017, 08:19:08 am »
In some ways, I feel like I'm 30 years too late to the game, as in 2018 it'll be 30 years since Movie 5 was aired and we were forced to say goodbye to the characters. Yes, they live on in our hearts, dreams and imaginations, but there's no new adventures to take us along on - we have to invent them ourselves.

As for Lum herself, despite many definitions of a perfect woman, Lum perhaps defines it in a way that other creators have tried to emulate and failed to do.

She's beautiful, without having to be drawn in such a way that emphasizes it. It doesn't matter that she has fangs and horns, and that she can fly and hurl lightning. She is like a star  in the nighttime sky or the sun on a clear day - she's the brightest point to focus on.

She's sexy, without being exaggerated, and yet she's fundamentally innocent enough that her mischievous side is as much a surprise as a welcome addition. In fact, just hearing and seeing her innocence in action brings a smile to me specifically even if I'm feeling pretty low for whatever reason.

She's brave, smart and funny, and she carries a single-minded devotion that you don't see in people that much. Being older (the handle Oldfan carries a meaning to it), to find someone like that, back then or now was and is miraculous thing.

And despite the fact she is my favorite female character, period, I can't help but feel bad for her. By the end of the manga/anime she knows Ataru loves her, even if he doesn't say it in words, but she didn't get her happy ending.

She's frozen in time, unless for some reason Rumiko Takahashi decides to let someone continue the story.

In the movie Beautiful Dreamer, at the 11 minute mark, you hear in her words what her dream is, she loves Darling and wants to spend the rest of her life with him, his family and their friends. That wish is accompanied by a special version of music that isn't on the Music Box CD or the soundtrack to the album, for lack of a better way to say it, I call it 'Lum's Dream' and it hits hard depending on my mood at least.

I blame Mamoru Oshii for the creation of that music, because any TV show episode that had her think of her dreams, it was used. Sadly enough, I kept track of it's usage, because despite the fact that I am a guy with a wonderful woman who's been with me for 10 years now, no matter my mood when I hear that music I get misty eyed. (I still get misty eyed with The Final Chapter too)

Episodes: 122, 144, 148, 152, 157, 158, 178 and 195 (US counts - the Japanese Blurays work differently and go to 218) all have uses of it - whenever she thinks of her dreams. In Episode 195 when she kisses Ataru finally in a mostly willing kiss we get that music as it feels like that is the only dream that comes true.

It's also played in 2 OVAs, Inaba the Dream Maker and Date with a Spirit, but not for her specifically.

I do have to say that her voice actress, Fumi Hirano defined Lum in such a way that I don't think it could be repeated, and it doesn't hurt that Fumi herself is still rather stunning at 62 years old.

I rambled on long enough though, that's why I love Lum so much, she's essentially a perfect character given an imperfect finale. However, I will add this, when I hunted down how to get the Japanese Blurays for the show (Only You I had to also get in DVD since it's uncut there), searches brought up FanFic too.

I was never into FanFic, but one creator and their 3 stories really stood out, those by crazyjw18 - who I see was on this forum at some point. Their rendition of the progression of the Lum/Ataru relationship was so well done, I'm not ashamed to say I used nefarious Chrome Extensions to save it to a document.

If I can't have an author created ending, that one just about fits the bill. If you've never read it, and are of a mind to do so here's the link to the first story: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/4118620/1/Lum-Gets-Grounded

Now I am done, I have to finish downloading my Japanese Digital Tankobans of the Manga and that finishes my 'collection', but not my love of the only series I ever chased down.

Edit: While I might be new here, the concept of UY isn't, so when I have time I read old posts to see what used to be discussed. Character Discussion and Defining - in the FanFic section was PAINFUL to read.

/soapbox on
Simply put, you cannot use modern psychology to define characters that were written 30 years and more ago, within the bounds of another culture. Nor can or should you write things that are so OOC to a character it makes them another person entirely, despite your 'noblest' of intentions. Speaking AS a writer, it's not flattering to the author/creator or the character(s).
/soapbox off
You really do feel strongly about this. I did like their kiss in the finale of the anime as I enjoyed seeing him willingly kiss her essentially, though only being able to do so because of the privacy they had. I heard about some of it from the other forums (which I can't seem the access right now), but specifically what is it in detail about the ending that makes you feel it was imperfect for Lum?

Offline Oldfan

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Re: My turn
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2017, 08:40:36 am »
You really do feel strongly about this. I did like their kiss in the finale of the anime as I enjoyed seeing him willingly kiss her essentially, though only being able to do so because of the privacy they had. I heard about some of it from the other forums (which I can't seem the access right now), but specifically what is it in detail about the ending that makes you feel it was imperfect for Lum?

The manga and the anime of the ending while tonally a little different, boiled down to one thing - while the horns in his possession sufficed to show her he loves her, in both was the 'I'll get you to say it even if it takes me a lifetime' and countered with 'Only on my deathbed' and from there, it's here we go again. And they're stuck at 17 - forever.

No one had to get married at the end of it, I would have been 100% satisfied if he just said the three words she wanted to hear from him. Just 5 more minutes of animation, like the next day or something, as they head to the ruins of the school, he could have stopped her, told her and gave her a willing kiss and roll credits. For all the times in the episodes she's mooned over him in one fashion or another she couldn't catch the one break she wanted.

I do maintain that if the whole thing wasn't supposed to be about their relationship, the manga itself had enough relationship stories that I would have to say I disagree. In fact, the manga relationship stories at times were more touching than the anime versions they were turned into. The eyedrops manga for one, and the rice cooker to the head for another, both of those in manga format were way more touching.

I know Rumiko had almost no say in the anime part, but the manga was all her so I'm skeptical at best. The movies all hammered the relationship home like a sledgehammer on a spike. In fact, Movies 1 and 5 were lateral bookends to each other, with role reversals for Lum and Ataru. But yes, I do feel strongly about it, it was the first anime series I ever liked and was and still is my favorite because for the most part it's timeless and it's groundbreaking. Since then there's been all sorts of clones and I have to fight to watch them. I don't lose sleep over this, but seeing as how I finally got to watch everything after all these years, the rational adult in me is having a hard time wondering why the two title characters couldn't have one little moment before the last goodbye.
I remain unhappy that they didn't give the right closure to the relationship and we have to 'decide for ourselves' if Lum and Ataru got together.

Offline Seiryu

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Re: My turn
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2017, 10:34:10 pm »
You really do feel strongly about this. I did like their kiss in the finale of the anime as I enjoyed seeing him willingly kiss her essentially, though only being able to do so because of the privacy they had. I heard about some of it from the other forums (which I can't seem the access right now), but specifically what is it in detail about the ending that makes you feel it was imperfect for Lum?

The manga and the anime of the ending while tonally a little different, boiled down to one thing - while the horns in his possession sufficed to show her he loves her, in both was the 'I'll get you to say it even if it takes me a lifetime' and countered with 'Only on my deathbed' and from there, it's here we go again. And they're stuck at 17 - forever.

No one had to get married at the end of it, I would have been 100% satisfied if he just said the three words she wanted to hear from him. Just 5 more minutes of animation, like the next day or something, as they head to the ruins of the school, he could have stopped her, told her and gave her a willing kiss and roll credits. For all the times in the episodes she's mooned over him in one fashion or another she couldn't catch the one break she wanted.

I do maintain that if the whole thing wasn't supposed to be about their relationship, the manga itself had enough relationship stories that I would have to say I disagree. In fact, the manga relationship stories at times were more touching than the anime versions they were turned into. The eyedrops manga for one, and the rice cooker to the head for another, both of those in manga format were way more touching.

I know Rumiko had almost no say in the anime part, but the manga was all her so I'm skeptical at best. The movies all hammered the relationship home like a sledgehammer on a spike. In fact, Movies 1 and 5 were lateral bookends to each other, with role reversals for Lum and Ataru. But yes, I do feel strongly about it, it was the first anime series I ever liked and was and still is my favorite because for the most part it's timeless and it's groundbreaking. Since then there's been all sorts of clones and I have to fight to watch them. I don't lose sleep over this, but seeing as how I finally got to watch everything after all these years, the rational adult in me is having a hard time wondering why the two title characters couldn't have one little moment before the last goodbye.

So I'm interested. Tell me, say you were given at least around 60 minutes for a new story, how you'd map everything out and develop this to make it a nice end and the ideal closure for Lum you felt she should have gotten. I'm curious how you'd extend it beyond the last storyline to wrap everything up.

Offline Oldfan

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Re: My turn
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2017, 04:46:40 am »
So I'm interested. Tell me, say you were given at least around 60 minutes for a new story, how you'd map everything out and develop this to make it a nice end and the ideal closure for Lum you felt she should have gotten. I'm curious how you'd extend it beyond the last storyline to wrap everything up.

I can safely say we're covering this in the other thread at this point. But I could comfortably do this and make sure it's believable in 90 mins to around something the same length as the uncut version of Only You, 101 or so minutes. Emotional stories need a certain amount of dialogue to make them believable and this is centered solely around Lum and Ataru - other people are literally guest stars, there to provide the needed pushes to keep things going.
I remain unhappy that they didn't give the right closure to the relationship and we have to 'decide for ourselves' if Lum and Ataru got together.

Offline Seiryu

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Re: My turn
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2017, 04:37:09 am »
So I'm interested. Tell me, say you were given at least around 60 minutes for a new story, how you'd map everything out and develop this to make it a nice end and the ideal closure for Lum you felt she should have gotten. I'm curious how you'd extend it beyond the last storyline to wrap everything up.

I can safely say we're covering this in the other thread at this point. But I could comfortably do this and make sure it's believable in 90 mins to around something the same length as the uncut version of Only You, 101 or so minutes. Emotional stories need a certain amount of dialogue to make them believable and this is centered solely around Lum and Ataru - other people are literally guest stars, there to provide the needed pushes to keep things going.
Sort of how a lot of the movies felt like. Every movie was largely about Ataru and Lum that the others definitely felt like extras a lot of the time.

 

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