Topic: Anime or Cartoons

[cata]

Thank you for your effort and kindness. ^^

[FallinG_StaR]

Wow... Nice...

Really you guys sure know how to make them long... (the posts )

Well... I don't want to sound like I'm taking sides or something... but... I agree with Sidzero in... well... everything... (that he said here)

Because... 1st you look up animation in any dictionary... (because if you search anime you'll find out its an oleo-resin... )
So what you do is search for animation...  - the process of preparing animated cartoons.

And I searched a bit more and this is what I got...

Japanimation - a style of cartoon or animation made in Japan that focuses on futuristic themes and robotlike characters; also called anime.

Anime is occasionally referred to as Japanimation, but this term has fallen into disuse. Japanimation saw the most usage during the 1970s and 1980s, but was supplanted by anime in the mid-1990s as the material became more widely known in English-speaking countries. In general, the term now only appears in nostalgic contexts.

Well... call me nostalgic... but changing a word doesn't change its meaning... or its origin... and since the original word in Japan was Animation... (アニメーション ; animēshon) and by the definition I placed above... Animation = Animated Cartoon...

That's what I love about history... searching the past to find the answer...

I'm not saying you people are wrong... on thinking anime (Japanimation) and animated cartoons are diferent... well... I am... but... whatever... XD At least in the books... it means the same... but yeah... visualy they are diferent... but... You tell me how many animes are identical to each other? And Cartoons? Its all about styles... try learning something about drawing and stuff... forget about psycology... or whatever... you know that in the animation world that doesn't matter...


And btw... quitting isn't admiting defeat... most of the time I quit a game when I'm winning... but I sometimes have better things to do... XD

[UruseiNeo]

Sorry, when I said that cartoons and anime have different styles, I should have been specific about the "qualities" they have.

eg. in an anime, you have things such as the sweat drop, kitsune eyes, that weird group of vertical lines that appears on a person's head (most often hen they get suddenly depressed) and of course, a very common one, the anger forehead symbol that looks like a bird's eye view of an intersection:

_| |_
_    _
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cartoons, tend to not have these, I don't think I've ever seen one that does (excluding shows that do anime parodies)

cartoons have THEIR OWN little special things, mot of which I'm not very good at explaining but you can find these easily in shows like roadruner and bugs bunny.

one quality that I can remember and define is when a character gets totally surprised and freaked out, their eyes will bulge out of the heads and their tongues will accompany them as best they can XD

anime does something similar but not the same, their eyes kinda bulge out but they don't completely pop out like in a cartoon.

unlike in anime, hair color doesn't seem to be unlimited in a cartoon (for people).

I don't recall seeing this in anime but I might be wrong: in a cartoon, a character's jaw can drop to the floor when they're shocked.

[FallinG_StaR]

one quality that I can remember and define is when a character gets totally surprised and freaked out, their eyes will bulge out of the heads and their tongues will accompany them as best they can XD

...I don't recall seeing this in anime but I might be wrong: in a cartoon, a character's jaw can drop to the floor when they're shocked.

Happens to me all the time... XD

But like I said... its all about styles... for example... the nose bleed... I'm seing a anime where they don't do the nose bleed... they bleed from their mouths... (don't ask me why... XD)

[UruseiNeo]

some of the more serious anime tend not to use these qualities, and yet it is still painfully obvious that it's an anime.

I'm still thinking about what kind of quality makes it so easy to distinguish even without the things I mentioned... I know someone wants to say "it's the eyes" but in serious anime eyes tend to be less big, especially on males.

But the fact that you can distinguish whether or not something is an anime just by looking at it for a few seconds (even without the qualities mentioned so far) should be enough to label them as different.

It doesn't matter if the definition origin goes back to cartoon, hell cartoon goes back to some swedish or french word. It's still degrading to call anime a cartoon.

Similarly, calling a wolf a dog is kinda degrading if you think about it.

[FallinG_StaR]

Hey... My Wolf is a dog...

And Anime is the one said to be from a french word... l'animé... XD

Like I said... the books say one thing but visualy we know its totally diferent...

But imagine this... A japanese kid goes to USA (or whatever) and he doesn't know what anything about american culture... when he gets to his hotel room... turns on the Tv and sees... lets say... The Flintstones... I'm guessing the 1st thing he will say to his mother/father... is "Hey they have anime here too..."

Now... A american kid goes to Japan... hmm... I guess you know the rest... XD
1st thing he will say to his mother/father... is "Hey they have cartoons here too..."


Its like beer... there's lager and there's ale... when you drink you think you're drinking a beer... not a special type of brew

Imagine Animation... theres Japanese and there's... Rest of the World... XD

But with beer or animation you will always drink/see your favorite... and when going the bar... XD You will ask for example... "give me a glass of lager..."

I don't know if using Beer as a example will help... but I hope you get my point...

[UruseiNeo]

I don't think kids can be used as an example. "kids" aren't really reliable in terms of knowing things. However, kids can be pretty smart at times, you know what I mean.

I can understand how they CAN be labeled as the same but seriously, they should be defined as two different types of animation.

Reboot is 3d animation. I can't call that a cartoon, that sounds very weird.

RedVsBlue is a machinima, a newer type of animation. That is 100% NOT A CARTOON.

So can't we just label these as subtypes under "animation" ?

[FallinG_StaR]

Anime: Animated Japanese animation or Japanese animated animation...

Doesn't make sense does it? Of course not... that's why they define it as Japanese animated cartoons...

They are diferent visualy but its impossible to find a definition for it... that doesn't relate it to cartoons...

RedVsBlue is a machinima (Machine Cinema)... yes it is... but I wouldn't call it a subtype of animation... I don't even want to go there...

Besides Machinima... are based on video games... obviously its not a cartoon... but if you see the series... you'll see their actions is of cartoon characters...

[UruseiNeo]

Is there anyway we can move all this into its own topic? I think that at this point the subject has enough posts to be its own forum.

[FallinG_StaR]

  I'll see what I can do...

Where did it all start??? 

Well its done... if you find any misplaced post that you think should be on the Character defining Topic tell me... and I'll move it back...

[cata]

I think it should be like this:

Animated Drawings (or something like that) is split in two: Anime and Cartoons. Anime - Japanese drawing animation (or something like that). Cartoons - USA, France, etc. drawing animation (or something like that).

[Kroptik]

I think that's exactly what sidzero was trying to say: why should animated series from Japan have a diferent name compared to the animated series of the rest of the world?

As for me, I agree that animes are cartoons, though I don't like to call them just cartoons, it feels too vague. I only call them cartoons to people who have never heard of the word anime. xD

[UruseiNeo]

I'm gonna say this again, just because it comes from Japan, doesn't mean it's labeled as "anime"

Thankyou for moving it ^_^ 6 pages worth XD

[sidzero]

There are probably thousands of people who think anime is a cartoon but that would never make them stupid.

I wasn't saying that it makes them stupid for thinking that. I was saying that it's stupid to think that, [/i]in my opinion[/i]. A person can be stupid about something and still be smart.

The problem is that calling an anime a cartoon makes it sound very childish and thus some people who like anime tend not to express it cause they think people will think of them childish.

I also think that people assuming that because something is a cartoon that it must be childish is stupid. Yes, many cartoons are aimed at children, but not all are. You think something like The Simpsons, any of the cartoons on Adult Swim, or most of the cartoons you find on the internet are aimed at children? Not quite.

It's all just an idiotic debate on semantics. Cartoons are, by my definition, animated shows. The dictionary agrees with me on this (at least in one of the definitions of "Cartoon").

I'm sorry but some examples you gave, Sidzero, made me laugh.

That was kinda the point. I like to inject humor into my arguments to keep the tone from getting too aggressive.  The more aggressively someone defends an idea, the less open minded they become about it. True story.

sexual orientation is part of someone. Just like his eye colour or what is his favourite food. Without it, he wouldn't be the same person that we know

I don't disagree with that. Our choices and our preferences are among the things that define us as individuals.

But Sidzero, uses his phylosophy knowledge and ideas to convince us. Unfortunately for him, I'm still loyal to my thoughts.

Philosophy is my gift, what can I say? Why would it be unfortunate for me that you stand by your beliefs? I respect that. Like I said, everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how wrong it is, and it doesn't matter to me what anyone believes whether or not they agree with me, because such things are unimportant. As long as I've accomplished making someone rethink their beliefs, whether or not they change them, then I've done what I mean to do.

Whatever you say, Mr. Sidzero.

Smile and nod....

Though I'd prefer if you listened, considered, and if you so choose, reject.

Really you guys sure know how to make them long...

I'm a fan of philosophical discourse. What can I say?

Japanimation saw the most usage during the 1970s and 1980s, but was supplanted by anime in the mid-1990s as the material became more widely known in English-speaking countries.

I think it had as much to do with a social move towards political correctness as anything.

Its all about styles... try learning something about drawing and stuff... forget about psycology... or whatever... you know that in the animation world that doesn't matter...

Why not learn it all? Actually, animation is something I learned at my second college, when I was studying video game design (the video game program had like 4 whole classes different from the animation program, so it covered both, really).

cartoons, tend to not have these, I don't think I've ever seen one that does (excluding shows that do anime parodies)

A different use of symbolism, a different beast does not make. It just means that they come from different cultures. By using your logic, one could say that a haiku is not a poem, which is simply not true.

Similarly, calling a wolf a dog is kinda degrading if you think about it.

And calling a wolf a dog is in no way similar. What this is, is more like calling a wolf a canine. Which is true, wolves are canines, as are dogs, foxes, coyotes, etc.

Imagine Animation... theres Japanese and there's... Rest of the World... XD

I like your examples in that post, this line in particular leaves me to make this comment. Just because one country does it best, does not mean that their product is dissimilar. Same could be said for a company, let's say Disney for this example:

What he's saying is equivalent to saying "Disney cartoons are such a better quality of cartoon that they are no longer cartoons and instead something different."


BTW, thank you for moving this into a new topic. Now that it's not so damned off-topic, I'm going to un-quit.

[cata]

I have nothing else left to say about this subject. I still think Anime and Cartoons are animated drawing but they're different. A lot different. Thank you Sidzero, UruseiNeo, Falling and Kroptik for sharing your thoughts with me. I guess these "fights" made me a better Otaku-in-the-making.