The World of Urusei Yatsura's Lum
Miscellaneous => General Discussion => Topic started by: UruseiNeo on March 09, 2009, 11:12:32 PM
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Lately, I've been REALLY into the Shin Megami Tensei games; "Persona 3 FES" and "Persona 4"
So I decided to start talking about it here :P
I know sidzero has already played some, hopefully there will be some other Persona fans out there to join in the conversation, I have a few topics to discuss ^_^ :angel:
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MMOs aren't really my thing, but if you like the MegaTen games, I keep seeing an ad for this on one of the sites I read manga on regularly...
http://megaten.aeriagames.com/
I dunno, you might be interested.
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I dunno what MMO stands for, but that aside, I wanted to first talk about the anime that was created between P3 FES and P4
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By MMO, I'm talking massively multiplayer online games. WoW and crap like that. That was one of the free ones.
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Ummm.... Persona isn't an MMO, though. It's neither multiplayer nor online. I dun like WoW either :\
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Is Persona something like Final Fantasy games?
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similar and yet not similar. You can use 1-4 characters and fight against enemies in turns.
In Persona 3, you can only control the Main Character, the other 3 are like CPU's but you can choose 3 out of 8 allies. In Persona 4, you can switch the CPU's to allow you full control, but you only have 6 choices in terms of allies.
Collecting Personas is like collecting pokemon XD but they aren't numbered like that.
Your persona basically determines your stats, strengths, weakness, and what skills you can use and the Main Character is the only character who can change his persona.
There are a variety types of attacks too; Physical, Fire, Ice, Electric, Wind, Light, and Dark. all characters and enemies have resistances and/or weaknesses to one or more of these "elements"
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Hmm... It looks like a WoW meets Final Fantasy meets Spellforce tipe of game... XD
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How is it WoW?
It's a lot closer to a mix between Legend of Dragoon and Sims. (Legend of Dragoon is a better example than Final Fantasy)
Here's a P3 Trailer: (All this is direct footage from the game)
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Persona 3 and Persona 3 FES feature the voices of:
Rukia (Bleach)
Ed (Full Metal Alchemist)
Miyuki (Lucky Star)
Uriyu(sp? Quincy guy) (Bleach)
Sasuke from Naruto as the main character (AKA Ben from Ben 10 Alien Force)
and more!
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WoW because of the attacks and stuff... XD
I don't know... I'm not really a fan of RPG's
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WoW because of the attacks and stuff... XD
In that sense, Final Fantasy and Legend of Dragoon are like WoW....
Anyways, this is a pretty popular game. Persona 4 is currently one of the top. The "secret ingredient," if you will, is the part of the game OUTSIDE the main plot.
There's the main plot where you are focused on leveling up and stuff, getting stronger and beating bosses...
Then there's the time you have to do whatever you want. Developing Social Links is a big part of the game. Pretty much all the Social Links you can make with female characters have the potential to become "Lovers Relationship" in which the character becomes your girlfriend. And yes, you can have more than one girlfriend.
One of the best features is the "New Game +" which is like a second playthrough but BETTER
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Funny how the main draw of Persona to western gamers is the dating sim aspect, but dating sims were never that popular in the US (mostly cause the Japanese wouldn't give us translations of any). Maybe they'll learn the lesson?
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I wasn't THAT focused on the "dating part" of the game, mostly cause I focused on one girl (Rise) instead of multiple girls in P4. (If Naoto becomes one of your girlfriends and you make the right choices, she'll dress like a girl for the XMas Eve event if you chose to see her)
In P3 FES, I followed (am following) a Social Link guide and... well the guide seems to pick the choices to make the female characters your girlfriend. That, or this is automatic in P3 and there is no "normal route" for a female Social Link.
But the creators are so detailed about this aspect of the game. A Social Link will become "Reversed" or even "Broken" if you do one of the following things:
1. Say something wrong during a conversation with them.
2. Make plans to do something with them on a Sunday and then cancel.
3. I believe not talking to them within a certain day limit will make them reverse.
- Girl's tend to have a 60 day limit before you have to talk to them again. This limit is decreased by 15 days if you talk to A DIFFERENT girl.
4. Girl's might reverse or break if you are caught with a different girl Social Link if both these girls have reached the "girlfriend" stage. This can be avoided by Maxing one Female Social Link at a time, as a Maxed Social Link can never reverse nor break.
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Funny how the main draw of Persona to western gamers is the dating sim aspect, but dating sims were never that popular in the US (mostly cause the Japanese wouldn't give us translations of any). Maybe they'll learn the lesson?
I think they just dont really care about the US market... or any other market...
Date Sims and other games from the same style... like Eroge... are so comon and are released so fast that the japanese market is more than enough for them...
And also, because many of the companies/studios are so small they can't possibly handle the jump to expand their market overseas... It would be a logistical nightmare for them...
Maybe one day... when Japan conquers the entire planet with their super mega army of Mecha's and hot looking anime girls... ;D (a dream I had) :P
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http://www.gametrailers.com/player/43650.html
Review:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/44007.html
9.3 Wow
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Maybe one day... when Japan conquers the entire planet with their super mega army of Mecha's and hot looking anime girls... ;D (a dream I had) :P
Or maybe they'll brainwash everyone with popular video games and anime, making us all want to become Japanese. Wait a minute. OH MY GOD, THEY'RE ALREADY WINNING!
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Hanaukyo Maid Team...
The guy has an alergic reaction when in contact with girls... just wanted to let you know this because you told us you want to make something original... ;D
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Hanaukyo Maid Team...
The guy has an alergic reaction when in contact with girls... just wanted to let you know this because you told us you want to make something original... ;D
Wrong topic?
Anyways, the first video you posted, Falling, is technically the main opening for Persona 4, the following is a better "preview"
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I also love that review video, thanks
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LoL... Maybe... You'll never know... XD
Dammit... :@
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Yeah, I was wondering that myself, but I thought it better not to say anything. Besides, the whole girl allergy thing hasn't been original at least since the 80s.
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That anime isn't from the 80's but whatever... you're right... it's not very common these days...
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c'mon, guys, I wanted to talk persona T_T
this discussion was technically meant for "I need advice"
Anyways, Sid, where are you in P4?
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That anime isn't from the 80's but whatever... you're right... it's not very common these days...
I said the 80s because I remember a certain manga from the 80s where a girl allergy was one of the main gimmicks.
Anyway, Persona 4... I haven't picked it up in like 2 weeks now, but I was right at the end of Kanji's dungeon on the first day it became available on my second playthrough. I've only seen the first bad ending because I wanted to start a new game where I can max out all the social links in the given time and didn't have the patience to bring my first game all the way to the good end conclusion (although I do have my first game saved at like December 18th or so). Well that and maybe cause I wanted to choose Rise as my Christmas date, but I only got her s.link up to level 7 (I could go back and finish it out and choose Yukiko though, she's cute and I have her s.link maxed). I think it's a lot more fun to play it with all your social stats maxed out right from the start. Probably when I go back to it, though, I'm going to start a new game. I already have a plan worked out where I can max all the social links in one go (which is easy to do once you learn all the characters' schedules), and I think I can pull off having the option of all the girls for the Christmas date, then I can save it and watch them all. :)
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It has been proven that MAXing all SL is possible in 1 playthrough. Being new to the game though, and not knowing a lot of what you can do, screws your chances of that happening fairly quickly. I couldn't find the study desk for the first few months XD
Too bad you don't get to keep the MAXed SL's on the second playthrough. Good news is that you can have a "second playthrough" when you beat the "second playthrough" in which you still get to keep yen, persona, etc. after beating Second playthrough.
I may not have been able to Max ALL my SL on New Game +, but I did managed to MAX all my allies' SL. It's fairly easy to do, but it's kinda a pain since their is no save period between the boss and the Xmas eve event....
Knowing the character's schedules isn't enough, you need to know what days it rains AND which days are holidays. Because most of your non-ally SLs are not available on holidays and almost NO ONE is available on rainy days.
There's a point in the Tower's SL (Shu, tutor SL) where all your allies join during one of his rank ups and it is a funny scene but it might be best to wait till you have all ur allies to maximize the fun.
So you saw one "bad ending" but did you see the normal ending? I assume you did since you said u reached December 18th
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The only ones I didn't max on my first playthrough were Rise, Naoto, Saki's brother, the Fox, Margaret, and the ones you meet at work. After the first playthrough I checked the schedules of all the characters (what days they come out and what not) and, having already known that it was possible to max the s.links, I realized all you need is an efficient plan.
Yen for me is rarely a problem (except at the very beginning) unless I do a lot of persona compendium recalls (which I did in my first game) because I'm the type of guy that spends a LOT of time levelling, even if I only go into the TV world once or twice per dungeon that opens up. Usually the first chance I get to open a new dungeon, I do that, then when I'm in the TV world, I go to the previous dungeon, run through it once or twice (and if I hadn't beaten it's extra boss by then, I do so) before going to the new one, which I run through completely at least twice before I take on the boss. But I'm sure that's how anyone else would play it too.
But yeah, it kinda irritates me how everyone seems to be afraid of the rain. Usually I end up fishing (best way to get extra chest keys). But yeah, I had assumed taking holidays and weather into account was common sense in the whole planning thing.
As far as endings go, no. The only one I've seen is bad ending one where you throw the crazy guy into the TV in the hospital and the girl stays dead. I know about the others, but I didn't see them. I'm not exactly sure on it being december 18th. Actually, it was probably more like the 10th or something. I don't know. It was the first day that the last guy's dungeon was available. I opened it up, but decided to save and start a new game before I even set foot in it.
Also, there is one thing I have to say. Teddie. What the fuck? Every time I hear his voice I want to find him and strangle him while I gouge his eyeballs out with a rusty spoon. But Shadow Teddie, man. That's the coolest fucking thing ever!
Dammit. Now I want to play it again. But I promised myself I'd work on my new comic. Ugh, I swear, I have no willpower anymore.
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referring to the leveling up, I kinda do that too but I have a method. What I do is pretend the MC doesn't exist, I do not care about leveling him up. I focus on leveling up my allies.
When I new dungeon opens, I make sure each ally has gone through it at least once or to the point where he/she has raised 5 levels. As the game goes on, this usually means going through the same dungeon multiple times then going back to the first floor.
Then, I do the same thing going through to beat the "extra boss"
As a result, each ally raises 10 levels before the next new dungeon, and looking at the MC, he has gained a fair bit more than 10 levels which is totally awesome.
It's a simple method and it doesn't involve too much boredom of the same level as half the time you have an alternate goal (reaching the top)
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Teddie is, I believe, the same VA for Henry from Digimon Tamers.
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I'm still a little confused on which dungeon you were referring to as the "last's guy's" could u give me his/her name (if worried about spoiling then the first letter will do)
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I've screened myself from P3 FES for pretty much 2 weeks now too, so I can focus on school T_T
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referring to the leveling up, I kinda do that too but I have a method. What I do is pretend the MC doesn't exist, I do not care about leveling him up. I focus on leveling up my allies.
Considering you can't take him out of the party, that's obvious. But it doesn't really matter if you keep reserve characters up to level anyway because how fast they level if they're any more than a few levels behind (ie: by the time I started training Kanji in my first go, he was about 20 levels behind and he was picking them up at about one level per fight for quite some time).
By last guy, I was talking about Adachi.
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Wait... you said you DIDN'T go into his dungeon so how did you end the game? Obviously you didn't use the normal route, so you must have use that bad ending you said u saw. But you said you saved before going in the dungeon? Did you save that AND go back to get the bad ending?
Anyways, I screwed up, while I was looking to make sure I didn't pick the wrong answers (to avoid getting bad ending with Namatame) and I accidentally got spoiled about Adachi T_T
So I never got to live the experience of solving the mystery T_T T_T
Care to share your experience?
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Bad Ending number one is achieved by throwing Namatame into the TV when he's in the hospital. Nanako stays dead that night and you skip Christmas straight to the end. You have to be really evil with your answers or you won't throw him into the TV, Nanako will still live, and it'll still advance through Christmas and whatnot, but you get a different ending (depending on your answers, the normal ending or one of the other bad endings). I had a backup save right before that scene, and I did it the way you were supposed to to get the perfect ending, got that game up to just before Adachi's dungeon, I kept that as another backup save, reloaded the backup and did the "throw Namatame into the TV" ending, then used that file to start a new game so I could play it through all the way again, but not have to worry about social stats (knowledge, understanding, dilligence, etc), and get a nice little boost of cash while I was at it (not to mention more than half the personas in the game saved in my compendium). My current game, after today, is now up to the point where I just opened up Rise's dungeon (which is my favorite in the game), and well on my path to a perfect game. :)
As far as my experience... I always figure out these things easily and early. It's like when I first saw The Sixth Sense, I figured out the guy was dead before the movie was even half over. First time I played this game, I figured it was Adachi around the time Rise gets kidnapped and he distracts you with some random paparazzi. He's just one of those obvious "I'm a bad guy pretending to be a good guy" characters that are pretty stock in mysteries and action-thrillers. They do a good job throwing you off with Namatame, but once you start seeing the "something just doesn't feel right" type of stuff, it becomes an obvious throw.
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I still wonder how I would have done, choosing the right name from that list to figure out who it was.
But if you think about it, it's a lot simpler than it looks. You can eliminate all your Social Links from the list right off the bat (common sense) and you eliminate Namatame and Mitsuo cause you already know their involvement, seems kinda stupid to have the three murdered victims on the list, but you can cross them off too. That leaves you with pretty much the fat girl (forgot name), the female teacher (forgot name) and Adachi.
1. Since you get three tries, you can guess all three if u want.
2. Adachi really does stand out more than the other two.
3. Adachi, who seems like a relatively important character, is NOT one of your social links.
That's how I wish I would have handled it if I got to handle it. I probably wouldn't have seen that "i'm a bad guy pretending to be a good guy" because I'm so used to his VA, Ichigo from Bleach AND the MC of Persona 4. (He's a REALLY good voice actor 0.0)
Hopefully I won't get spoiled for P3 FES, but so far it's pretty great. There are some aspects of it that I like better than P4.
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great game persona 3! best part of the game was the story
i want to buy p3 fes or p4 but i can't find it :/
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I found P3 FES at an EB games but it was kinda hidden, like in the area where the games are stacked so you can only see their side.
It's best to ask a store if they have it and they will help u find where it is.
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Has anyone watched those first two videos I posted in this topic yet?
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Here's another Persona video. This is one of the animated scenes from Persona 4, pretty epic.
This is also the first time the MC hears the voice of his Persona.
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Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
Awesome... ;D
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I like the second half of the video the best ^_^
I bet MC wasn't expecting that XD
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Oh, UruseiNeo, got a question for you. You're a Persona fan, so I figured I'd as if you'd seen Persona Trinity Soul yet? If so, is it any good, and do you really need to have played Persona 3 to understand the story?
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Actually I opened this topic with 2 Persona Trinity Soul Clips (my 2nd post).
I've seen 4 episodes and the animation style seems fairly similar to Persona 3 and 4 styling. To my surprise, Igor actually makes an appearance in the first episode, just like Persona 3 and 4.
You really really don't need to have played Persona 3 at all as this is a different story (that takes place a few years after Persona 3). However, there is one Persona 3 character that makes an appearance, I've heard, I haven't seen him yet.
It would seem that everyone has a persona, but I don't they are all "awakened". In the first episode, you see one of the bad guys (the bad guys are Persona users) trying to devour(?) the persona of a girl. This gives me the impression that everyone in town has a persona and this guy's mission is to take them.
The awakening of the MC's persona (Shin, funny he seems to be named after Shin Megami Tensei) is a pretty cool scene. However, the persona didn't talk like the other two. "Thou art I, and I am thou... from the sea of your soul I awaken... I am (No name found yet)"
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I ask cause I haven't played P3, nor can I find a copy at any of my local Gamestops, so I'm completely in the dark as to the story (or really anything other than the elements common to the Megaten universe), and I was curious about the anime, considering how the Persona games are, and all.
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Well, like I said, you don't need to play any of the persona games. I don't even think there are shadows.
But just like how the different games have their own way, so does the anime.
The first clip I posted is a scene introducing the main character and his brother.
The second clip is the awakening of the main character's Persona.
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Man... I watched the first 5 episodes... and I think some of my brain cells died in the process... of trying to understand the story... LoL
And that's with only 5 episodes... ;D
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Maybe that's cause you haven't played ANY persona games :P
But I understood it, and I'm sure Sid will too.
The first few episodes are about introducing the main characters and some of their persona.
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Hey, you're the one that said that we didn't need to have played the game to follow the series... ;D
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In terms of characters and storyline, no. But I don't know if being aware of the concept of Persona is necessary or not.
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I'm sure a half-decent understanding of Jungian psychology would suffice. See, I thought it really was clever of the folks at Atlus to bring together the concepts from Jungian psychology and the Tarot, because they really do have a lot in common, and go rather hand in hand.
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Sadly, I have yet to see any of our lovable cards in this show T_T
Which means no Arcana Cards, Major or Minor, and no Social Links.
I hope they throw in a few recognizable persona. So far I haven't even heard a name for any of them.
I think I heard somewhere, though, that Shin(MC) and his little brother BOTH share the Fool Arcana?
I confirmed that the two brothers, and their older brother (who is kinda like an investigator of the going-ons) are all persona users. The oldest brother (not MC) was first.
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I don't know if you know much about the Tarot, but there's a very good reason the main characters are always the Fool. I don't know if I can really explain it properly, but the major arcana represent the stages of a journey. It's kinda like the monomyth idea (I think I've tried explaining that here before, so I won't repeat myself). The Fool is the beginning of that journey. It's actually a pretty big factor to consider when reading a Tarot spread. But I don't really feel like giving a lesson in reading Tarot, so I'll leave it at that (if you want to learn more, you have the internet at your fingertips and I'm sure by now you all know how to use it).
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I know that. Firstly, Igor explains in both games how "The Fool" represents the number 0 which is empty yet full of possibilities.
Secondly, Persona 3 actually goes over what you said. If you recall the teacher that talks about Izanagi and Izanami during that school trip to Gekkokan High in P4, that same teacher goes over the concept of the Tarot Cards.
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Now that's edu-tainment!
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education + entertainment?
Anyways, I kinda like the teacher but those two lectures were pretty much all he was good for.
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Because I don't want to create a new Topic... I'll be borowing this one... XD
Does any one know this game, Ai Sp@ce? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ai_Sp@ce)
It looks like a good mmorpg... sadly its completly in japanese... I'll be waiting for the Global version... at least I'll be hoping they make one... XD
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That has nothing to do with Persona... U saying my forum is topic?
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I didn't understand you question... and I know its not related to Persona but it is related to video games... and I'm not going to open a new topic to make a simple question.
Don't need to get your panties in a bunch over it...
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Sorry, head in the clouds, I meant to say "dead" not "topic"
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LoL
"U saying my forum is topic?" = U saying my topic is dead? ;D
Now I understand... XD
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yeah, I think after I typed "forum" I was in the midst of deciding whether I should change it to "topic" while I wrote the rest. So I typed topic by accident.
So... U saying my topic is dead? XD
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It could die... but its up to you to keep it alive... or lay the final blow... XD
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Actually, I tried starting my own little Persona battling forum at fanfiction.
Of course, that kind of thing needs people to play it, something I didn't really have. And to be honest, I didn't really care, I just wanted to make it for the sake of making it XD
Any chance someone hear would wanna give it a try?
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Hmm... depends... what do we have to do?
If owning the game is one of the requirements... I'm out from the start... XD
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Not really... basically there are a number of "arcanas" and you pick one. You can collect all the persona of that arcana but at the beginning you start with the weakest.
Battle, and lvl up ur persona so it can learn new skills.
As you get stronger, you will find more persona of your Arcana and thus you will be able to use multiple persona at a time.
You can battle other players, but there will also be Boss Persona every so often and then there are the 6 Judges which are like Bosses but you can fight them any time you want. They are, however, potentially the strongest persona users in the game, and you would probably have to be lvl 60 just to beat the first one.
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LoL... Now I'm confused... but that's only normal... XD
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It's kinda like pokemon, in a way. Except that Persona can learn up to 8 skills, instead of 4, and Persona don't evolve.
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LoL... That didn't help... XD
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Okay, let's start from the beginning. There are 22 Arcanas, one for each Tarot card.
Examples of Arcanas are: The Fool, The Chariot, The Lovers, The Sun, The Moon, The Magician, The Death, The Justice, these are out of order btw, The Emperor, The Empress, The Devil, etc.
Of the 22 Arcana, you get to choose one. Say you choose "The Fool". You start out with the weakness "The Fool" Persona which is Orpheus, a lvl 1 persona. You are now a "Persona User". Using him, you battle enemies or other Persona Users and you gain EXP which levels your Persona up and it will learn new skills.
Once you get you reach a high enough level, you'll unlock the next strongest Persona of that Arcana. You now have two Persona at your disposal to fight with, which gives you more options during battle as two Persona will be likely to have different skills.
All enemies and Persona have strengths and weaknesses. Be it Fire, Ice, Wind, Lightning, Darkness, Light, or a Physical attack.
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I don't think that'd really work here since we know nothing about their weaknesses, attacks, etc.
And there's no "The Ecchi" tarot card for Falling... xD
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all weaknesses and strengths would be listed in the Persona profiles.
Here are the types of affinities:
Weak: Inflicts double damage
Strong: Inflicts half damage
Null: Inflicts 0 damage
Drains: Damage increases HP instead
Repel: Inflicts damage to attacker
Of course, it is likely that a Persona will only have one or two affinities while the other types of attacks do normal damage.
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And there's no "The Ecchi" tarot card for Falling... xD
Indeed... XD
Btw, I bought the game yesterday... Persona 4, and It takes to long to get to the fighting... I'm still wondering around as the 2nd dead person appears.
And how can they call someone that's hanging upside down on a antenna an accident???
Falling of stairs that's an accident... now ending up upside down in antenna... and calling it "a possible accident" that's pushing it a bit to far... XD
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it is a little while, true, Persona 3 gets to to ur first battle a litter sooner.
But both games make you play 7 days before you have total free control of where you can go.
Once you get to battling though, it's worth the wait, I remember my frustration at that time which was completely revoked as I played.
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Another thing that I don't like... Its the english voices... XD
The only one that seem ok are from Yosuke, Dojima and... Oh... and Teddie... XD
I know the game is for +16 years old but I think they exagerate on cursing... XD
Example: The first day at school... Homeroom class... ;D
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the game is 18+ not 16+...
Yosuke is played by the same VA as Sasuke from Naruto and Ben from Ben 10 Alien Force
Teddie is Henry from Digimon Tamers
The MC AND Adachi are both played by Ichigo from bleach.
There are more known VAs but u probably haven't run into them yet
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Europe +16:
http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/02/ciu/66/ad/69c5017b42a0f15ef7020210.L.jpg
North America Rated M:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51UTQTqkPaL._SS400_.jpg
Us Europeans can handle more than you LoL
Maybe its because in Europe its distributed by Square Enix... and in N. America is by Atlus???
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right, I meant 17+
does it have different voices too? Or is it just the rating?
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I don't know... I never saw the english dubbed animes you mentioned... So I can't tell... but I'll check the credits... and see If I find anything...
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Or I could get a clip from youtube and you can listen to it.
#Invalid YouTube Link#
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Yep... Its the same... still I would like to listen in Japanese... and with English dialog/subtitles...
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I doubt you can get japanese audio with english subs.