The World of Urusei Yatsura's Lum

Urusei Yatsura - RPG, Movies, Episodes & Stories => RPG Storylines & FanFiction => Topic started by: UruseiNeo on March 28, 2008, 02:53:15 AM

Title: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on March 28, 2008, 02:53:15 AM
As a fan fiction writer I thought that this type of topic would help for all writers. Basically here we discuss a character, one at a time, and talk about that character. Discuss things such as what this character thinks of another character and whether or not the character knows of something.

I think that through this discussion, it will make it easier for writers to understand characters better and their feelings.

Character 1: Lum Invader

Now, we know a whole lot about Lum already due to this site. She's an alien, is in love with Ataru Moroboshi, relatives, friends, cooking skills... etc. But one of the first things I would like to discuss is... how sure is she about her relationship with Ataru.

By that, I mean how sure is she that she will be able to get him to walk down that isle. She has witnessed him countless times doing the right thing but he still chasing other girls.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Forgotten_Lum on March 28, 2008, 01:55:12 PM
in my personal opinion, ataru will eventually grow up and realize what he is doing, whether it being to late or not is another question. Lum is incredibly patient, it shows, but patients has its limits. Throughout the entire series both Lum and Ataru are growing up, they may not see it because its gradual, but it is happening. Also i keep getting the feeling that they like their little cat and mouse game.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on March 28, 2008, 05:53:49 PM
I agree that they might like the cat mouse game.

Anyways what I'm looking for is... what does she think Ataru is thinking about this.
Keep in mind that what Ataru's view on this is and what Lum THINKS his view on this is can be almost two completely different things, correct?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on March 28, 2008, 11:42:07 PM
Indeed their views on their relationship ARE completely different. This is a good thread. I'm sure many here know I've done extensive studies on the characters of Urusei Yatsura, particularly Moroboshi Ataru (as can be found in some of my previous posts). Lum, being the other major character of the series, is another one I've studied and analyzed pretty deeply. At this very moment, I don't have the impetus to really make an in-depth post on what I've discovered about her, but perhaps later this evening, when I have more time, I will. I'll get back on this one.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on March 28, 2008, 11:59:00 PM
Thank you for the compliment, I'm hoping this thread will help all UY fanfiction writers.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on March 29, 2008, 03:02:25 AM
Lum, Lum, Lum... the beautiful alien daughter of the alien warlord, Invader. There's so much to say about her. You say there's so much we know about her thanks to this site, but the bulk of what we know about her really comes from UY itself. Everyone is prone to talk about all the wonderful things about her, things we all know so well (things that there really aren't a whole lot of, if you think about it). But she's quite a flawed character. In my opinion, she has so many more negatives than positives when it comes to her personality and overall character. Sure she's got her fantastically good looks and a very nice body to go with them, an undying devotion to her beloved, and no qualms about expressing her feelings for him, as well as her well known powers of flight and electrokinesis. But what else is really so great about her? She's possessive, jealous, and controlling. Those are probably the 3 worst traits for anyone, man or woman, to have when it comes to relationships. Especially when combined with her lack of concern for her partners feelings, despite the intensity of her own feelings. Despite her "absolute love" for Ataru (which could be seen as more of a love between master and pet than an equal relationship between lovers, when looked at from an objective standpoint), she never makes any attempts to really try and understand him, or his feelings, or his point of view (and that's not even counting her lack of understanding of her "darling's" very cultural values and expectations). It's the ultimate hypocrisy of relationships. She expects her mate to stand by her despite all things, but doesn't really expect to do the same in return. True, this could be because she doesn't get what she wants at all, and is only returning his lack of concern, but it could just be because of Lum's personality. She's self-centered. She's obsessive. She's even a little egotistical.

Now, I don't want to seem like I'm being sexist or anything, but these are traits I've noticed in most women (and pretty much all women I end up getting involved in relationships with). She's the typical "crazy girlfriend", despite everyone's want to believe that she's not. Trust me, judging by the way she acts towards Ataru, all the people that think she's an ideal girlfriend, would end up hating her if they actually had that wish, though perhaps for different reasons. She's the type of girl that would walk all over you, if you gave her the opportunity. I've been involved with a lot of women like that, and I've been the boyfriend who's been walked all over, and the jerk boyfriend that doesn't pay enough attention. This is probably why I take such interest in Ataru. Other than the fact that he reminds me of myself at that age (though a more... extreme version of me), I truly sympathize with the situation he's been forced into.

You say you want to know how sure we think she is about her relationship with Ataru, but like with all things, no person is sure about something all the time, despite how sure they may or may not seem. In my opinion, I don't think Lum even thinks about it. I'd think that from her point of view, she has him already, despite his antics. But deep down, she's got a lot of faith that he's going to give up on his "cheating". I also agree that they both like the game of cat and mouse they play. Aside from the occasional crisis in faith, Ataru knows that she's always going to be there for him when he's ready to settle down, whether or not he thinks he's going to settle down being beside the point. I think that fact is quite clearly illustrated by the way Ataru changes his tune any time it looks like that possibility is in jeopardy. He loves her, he's just not ready to be in love with her. Lum on the other hand is the opposite, she's in love with him, but not ready to really love him. Left to their own devices, and if there were no real outside interference, they could very easily end up with that happily ever after that Lum dreams about for them. But that's the whole point of the story, isn't it? To throw things at them and make that dream look harder and harder to achieve. Most of this is on Ataru's end, making crises for Lum's faith in the relationship, despite it seeming that Lum is so sure of their future together. I think, overall, that Ataru seems a lot more sure of their future together than Lum does, though Ataru is a lot less interested in making sure it comes to pass than Lum is.

And that, my friends, is the jist of their relationship together.



I also want to add that if any of the potential fanfic writers out there want some help better understanding the characters of this wonderful series, I'd be more than glad to discuss their ideas with them to see if they really fit the spirit of the characters as they should be (though of course, if their version of things makes for any big things that would change things in the personalities of any of the characters, as happens with most people over time, anything could really go with them).
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on March 29, 2008, 03:23:29 AM
I'm sorry but that didn't fit the format of a 5 paragraph essay. XD

Very good content, contains a lot of good material. I'd like to step away from her interpretation of Ataru for now, we can come back to that if anybody wants. How about we talk about what she thinks of some of the other people.

For example, Shinobu. Now, I think it's pretty clear Shinobu no longer has interest in Ataru. So... does Lum think of Shinobu as a friend now or as a threat? Similarly what does she see the other female characters as?

Try to keep your comments short so that we can go into an elaborate and diverse discussion.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on March 29, 2008, 04:20:32 PM
The relationship between Lum and Shinobu has indeed changed over the course of the series. At first Lum saw her as nothing more than a rival for Ataru's affection, but as Shinobu's feelings for Ataru cooled after Mendo arrived, and Lum got to see Ataru as he is (flirting with many women other than just Shinobu), their relationship warmed up. Later in the series, I think Shinobu had managed to even become Lum's closest earthling friend. One of the good things about Lum is her ability to pretty much become friends with anyone, and I think she's pretty friendly with all the other characters, male or female. Even Ran, despite their history, especially after Ran got together with Rei, and Ran started to see what was really going on with Lum. Ran did eventually see that the bad things that Lum had "done" to her were just because Lum tries too hard and is accident prone. That was made clear in the chapter where Ran got sick, and Lum tried to take care of her.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on March 29, 2008, 06:35:10 PM
I remember an episode though the one where Lum thinks she's turning into a cow. She gets this thought into her head that after turning into a cow, Shinobu is going to take Ataru and "all her boys"

This could also imply that she likes the attention the other guys give her.

That scene, I thought, was actually a little out of character.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on March 29, 2008, 07:39:22 PM
Well, in my opinion, the anime bastardized a lot of things. It distorted the personalities of many of the characters, especially Ataru, who in the manga, over the course of the series, came a lot closer to settling down than the anime suggests. Even many of the stories themselves were butchered. For example, compare the two stories that realize Ataru's personality into reality, in the manga it comes from an egg owned by sprites that feeds on human spirit that Ataru finds one day at school cleaning up after a storm. In the anime, this story was completely changed, and instead now it happens on an island owned by Mendo that Ataru and the gang find themselves lost on and it happens because Ataru eats a mushroom. Another example would be the whole "Miss Tomobiki contest" story. Hell, the anime assigns many roles that originally belonged to Mendo to the Stormtroopers (who in the manga disappeared completely after Mendo arrives), just because the writers liked them too much. This is why my own story was to be based more on the manga than the anime, the manga was far better and better defined characters, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on March 29, 2008, 08:18:13 PM
let's talk about her view on Ran. Lum clearly seems to want to avoid Ran, at least in the anime. Recently I read the manga chapter for the one where Ran is sick. In the anime Ran's dolls kept bugging Lum SAYING that she didn't want her to come but made it obvious that she did. In the manga the dolls meant what they said... don't come... but Lum went anyway thinking it was just Ran's way of saying she wanted company.

So two different views. In one Lum wants to stay completely away from Ran, in the other Lum is more considerate. Both result in the same way however.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on March 29, 2008, 09:20:18 PM
Well, they're childhood best friends. Despite whatever fear Lum may feel of Ran because of her repeated attempts at revenge, that doesn't change. And if you grew up with someone like that, who else is going to know you better? Or vice versa?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on March 29, 2008, 09:40:52 PM
I still think that Lum tries to avoid Ran when she can. She thinks that whenever she gets involved with Ran she usually gets yelled at, Ataru gets involved, Rei sometimes shows up, explosives, she ends up being the "bad guy" to Ran, etc. So basically it always ends bad when she gets involved with Ran.

She does however hope with with all her might that Rei will get together with Ran. (I don't think this was official in the anime and I haven't read all the manga yet)
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: kyo on March 30, 2008, 06:05:17 AM
All good points my friends.  ;D I has a few thing I want to get off my mind as well.

Who The hell is Oyuki and Benten parents ? (sorry for the lang but this is important.) I mean they Never seen and I hate to find Out they dead.

Is Ran mother really, You know "mean" ? I mean I have a Few fanfic with her in it.

and The last thing... We gotta name Mrs. Invader and Mr. Invader... I cant' keep calling them that... It freaking annoying lol.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on March 30, 2008, 06:13:59 AM
That was actually very off topic since we are currently focusing on Lum and her thoughts towards other characters. Yes Ran's mom is very mean. Other than that we don't know about any of Lum's Friends' Parents. We can focus on naming the Invaders later.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: kyo on March 30, 2008, 06:35:47 AM
whoops Offtopic sorry UruseiNeo Please forgive me. :-[

Okay let's start again, I always wonder If lum really wanted Mendo in The first place. Like is there one way to turn lum away from Ataru, Would ataru fight back, or be back ?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on March 30, 2008, 06:45:11 AM
I think the only reason Lum had even the slightest interest in Mendou was because of that stupid computer. Even so, due to many calculations it was determined that Mendou and Ataru were the same and she picks Ataru... WITHOUT A SECOND THOUGHT!!!

And as proven in episode 105/106 Ataru would most certainly fight back and HAS fought back. But that was not in the anime, I hear. Although I haven't seen the manga version of this... Lum was again kidnapped by Shingo(?) the electric guy and again Ataru fights to get her back.

Okay that second paragraph had little to do with Lum's thoughts -_-'''

Back on topic, I think the only ways Lum could be turned away from Ataru is if she lost her memory... was greatly threatened (IE Ataru would be killed otherwise or something like that), due to a love potion (I hate those), and maybe... perhaps... if Ataru went so low as to sleep with another woman (like the chances of that happening aren't slime to none >.>)
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: kyo on March 30, 2008, 06:54:03 AM
yes, True and since we're In lum thoughts... How long is she really Going to keep waiting till Ataru say "I LOVE YOU" ?  untill he really on his deathbed ? Maybe he waiting till they Older or Alone...( yeah the latter sound wonderful)
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on March 30, 2008, 06:59:21 AM
She'll wait forever, I think. I'm pretty sure she's determined to keep it up cause she's sure that he has feelings for her.

She probably understands his view on marriage but also believes that in the long run they're end up together. And she is prepared to take advantage of every single situation that involves Ataru expressing his feelings (such as the previously mentioned Shingo episode) to push him closer to her.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on March 30, 2008, 05:38:05 PM
Benten's and Oyuki's parents are left to the readers imagination. Ran's mom is a whole lot more than just mean. But more on those things when and if we get there.

As far as the idea of Lum with Mendo... it would NEVER happen, even if Lum gave up on Ataru somehow. They may be equal according to the horoscope, but they're still different. Mendo's got his pluses and minuses just like Ataru (if they're equal it makes sense). What Mendo has in money, looks, and power, he has to make up for by a loss somewhere else. I think that Lum sees this, and knows that his deficit is in the department of character, and that that is what she sees in Ataru more than anything. The idea that all her little fan club on Earth has that if she left Ataru they would come to any of them is preposterous. If we ignore the fact that she is based on the mythological oni, and oni are bad luck spirits, and Ataru's character is defined by his bad luck, and that that is what most likely was intended to be the draw for her at first... then we're left with the assumption that she sees something in him that she doesn't see in anyone else, and that's why she loves him. And that's aside from the fact that, like most people (not to sound sexist, but it's a trait I've noticed ESPECIALLY in women), she wants what she has the most difficulty in getting. I think a big aspect of her character (demonstrated when she was trying to explain to the one girl before she had to get in the fight with Soban, the one where she was taking drugs to win) is her "never give up, never say die" attitude. Because of that, I don't think she would ever give up on Ataru until she "wins". The game of tag that started their relationship, continues throughout their entire relationship, but this time it's the other way around, where instead of Ataru trying to tag Lum's horns, Lum is trying to tag Ataru's heart.

Although of course, I'm sure things could happen that would cause Lum to give up on Ataru. Though I don't even think that finding him in bed with another woman would be enough to do that, so long as he sleeps with her first. If someone needs ideas for reasons to separate the two for good, just ask, I'd be glad to help them come up with some. The only difficulty in the task is to find something that would sufficiently break Lum's heart enough to cause her to leave, but still be something that Ataru would actually do.

As far as anything Lum has to do with Mendo, she sees him as a friend, nothing more, though he tries more and more to be more. I'm sure once he gets a real girlfriend and gets over his obsession, everything would be cool between them all. After all, despite their rivalry, Ataru and Mendo are pretty good friends. This is a big part of the reason why Lum would never switch to Mendo, she wouldn't want to ruin their friendship. She may be an airhead, but she's not that much of an evil bitch.



Also, episode 105/106 is an anime-exclusive story, but there are many examples throughout both versions where Ataru fights for Lum. Shingo's first story being one, the Matchmaking Party story another, Inaba's first story yet another... the list goes on.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 03, 2008, 04:14:53 AM
I think Lum's attitude towards Mendou is pretty similar to Shinobu's attitude towards Ataru. She sees him as a comrade but won't hesitate to knock him silly if he make a move.

Okay, so we've made a thorough discussion on Lum and her thoughts towards Ataru, Mendou, Shinobu, and Ran. As far as Rei goes, discussion is not needed... she wants him out of her life and preferable into Ran's.

At the beginning of the series, Lum seemed to look at Ten as a baby just like everyone else (except Ataru). By the end she appears to understand why Ataru and Ten fight. Anyone agree on this?
Posted on: March 30, 2008, 08:19:23 PM
I think there was one more thing on Lum I wanted to discuss but I can't quite remember what...

Is there anyone else who wants to discuss something on Lum before we move to a new character?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: GiovaneDinamitardo on April 04, 2008, 11:37:04 PM
A very last question: when we speak about Lamù we never consider the possibility that she could make some ERROR in her choices !!!

I know, I'm so egoist when I speak about this but I've tried to image (and who has red "the birth of a star" well know what I'm saying) the possibility that she could make very wrong choices in her life (who would have ever thought that she could become a drug addicted ?!?), carrying on several consequences: I think that this one could also become  a great source of ideas for future tales (both funny or terribles).

I've got that idea and I'm developping in my "universe", what about you ?!?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 05, 2008, 12:30:34 AM
interesting idea.

I think she makes many errors and that is why she blows stuff up sometimes. But most of the time he just seems to follow Ataru.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: kyo on April 05, 2008, 01:01:26 AM
A very last question: when we speak about Lamù we never consider the possibility that she could make some ERROR in her choices !!!

I know, I'm so egoist when I speak about this but I've tried to image (and who has red "the birth of a star" well know what I'm saying) the possibility that she could make very wrong choices in her life (who would have ever thought that she could become a drug addicted ?!?), carrying on several consequences: I think that this one could also become  a great source of ideas for future tales (both funny or terribles).

I've got that idea and I'm developping in my "universe", what about you ?!?
same in my universe the fact that she flaw is why I  keep writing
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 05, 2008, 01:04:40 AM
Everyone has flaws. One of lum's is her cooking and another is her intention to do something nice but due to naivety she ends up blowing stuff up and such.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: GiovaneDinamitardo on April 05, 2008, 05:49:45 PM
But we have to consider also the measure of the error: form a little error we can developpe an episode, from one big error we can wrote a full history !!

It doesn't have to be macroscopic, they could be some little happenings but who can conditionate the path of the main character !!!

Even talking as an egoist, just to make some istances: Benten who take a bad wire after a love story or......well, Lamù is going to do one another error.

But, over all, after them, we have also to <<keep the door open>>: in this way we won't have any limit but our fantasy to wrote neverending histories !!!

This is not just for Lamù but for all of the characters (excetp Ataru: is in his nature do do ONLY errors in his life !!!).
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 05, 2008, 06:17:59 PM
I don't Lum has any errors that huge aside from the ones we already understand. Anything else would be more of a character development by the fanfiction author than her original design.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 05, 2008, 07:13:05 PM
Every character, every person has flaws. We make foolish decisions. We forget things that we would be better off remembering. We make stupid mistakes. We do things for reasons that even we ourselves may disagree with at some point. We are not perfect. Whether we are real or fictional, we are defined by the bad things that happen to us, or because of us. Without the bad, we would never know what good is. These sort of things are what make us who we are.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 05, 2008, 07:16:36 PM
So are we done with Lum for now or... I don't really know what ur comment was portraying...

Are you saying that we need not talk about Lum making mistakes because everybody does it or that we SHOULD talk about her making mistakes?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 05, 2008, 07:39:02 PM
Well, if you really want to understand Lum, I'm just saying that you have to understand that characters develop. IE: Lum at the beginning of the series is quite a bit different than Lum at the end of the series because of the things she's learned and experienced throughout. You have to take everything into consideration when trying to really get to know a character well enough that you can really write them well. You have to be able to put yourself in their shoes. But mostly, it was just a random comment to go with all the things being said about her flaws and what not. Of course she has flaws, and a whole damned lot of them at that. That's what makes Lum Lum though.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 05, 2008, 07:44:16 PM
Maybe before we official move on to a new character we should create a pros and cons list.

Let's start with the pros!
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: DarkDevil on April 06, 2008, 12:57:58 AM
Any sugestions?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 06, 2008, 10:06:44 PM
Before I begin my list, just wanted to note one last thing. I think that Lum believes that Ataru likes her and also knows that Ataru is too shy (as notice in the final episode, 195) Despite this, she still tries to -force- him to show his feelings instead of doing things  privately which would work better (again, proven to work in episode 195). With that, here is my list--

Pros:

Kind-hearted
Resourceful for gadgets
Good appearance
Devoted

Cons:

Naive
Short-tempered
her stuff usually blows up
hyper spicy cooking
tends to over do things

Anyone have anything else to add? I know there's more...
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 06, 2008, 10:57:17 PM
The thing about listing pros and cons, is that there's two sides to any argument. Something that can be seen as a positive to one person, in another person's eyes can be seen as a negative. All a matter of perspective. My list of "pros" and "cons" would look a whole lot different than yours, that's for sure (and there are a lot more negatives than positives in my list as far as Lum is concerned).
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 06, 2008, 10:59:17 PM
are you going to list urs?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: veehive on April 06, 2008, 11:02:04 PM
Her almost limitless optimism
Her valor

:)

Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 06, 2008, 11:02:32 PM
those pros or cons?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: veehive on April 06, 2008, 11:13:42 PM
Which episode is it? And which side are you on?  ;D ;)

pros.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 06, 2008, 11:15:16 PM
Which episode is it? And which side are you on?  ;D ;)

I didn't quite get that...
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: veehive on April 06, 2008, 11:21:01 PM
Could be either, depending on the individual story line and one's involved view within it.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 06, 2008, 11:23:46 PM
If you really want me to list them out, I could, but mostly it'd just be a bullet point of what I've already said about her.

And if she were a real girl, I'd probably find her way too obnoxious for my tastes. Too much like the many other insane women I've met in my days.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 06, 2008, 11:25:30 PM
Update list:

Pros:

Kind-hearted
Resourceful for gadgets
Good appearance
Devoted
optimism
valor

Cons:

Naive
Short-tempered
her stuff usually blows up
hyper spicy cooking
tends to over do things
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 06, 2008, 11:40:57 PM
Self-centered, arrogant, needy, controlling, jealous, bit of an airhead, klutzy, dependent, hypocritical, paranoid, delusional, incessantly manic, obsessive, possessive, manipulative, ignorant (towards many things), weak-willed, insensitive, nosy, hot-headed, vindictive, and a million and a half other negative things. All that on top of the fact that she tries way too hard to be something she just isn't.

The few good things that she's got going for her are that yes, she's easy on the eyes (though that can often be as harmful as helpful), that she's got those cool superpowers (lightning, flying and what not) and fancy alien technology at her fingertips (that she doesn't even seem to appreciate sometimes).

I'd say she's loyal... but she's not. She certainly wasn't above trying to stab Ataru in the back to try and prove a point. Remember Mr Dolphin (or Mr Shark, depending what translation)? Remember how she would tease Mendo, or the Stormtroopers (in the anime, at least) to try and make Ataru jealous?

Most of her pros are iffy, but her cons are solid. The only other one I can think of as a possible pro is her innocence and naivety. Personally, I like the innocent type (I enjoy breaking that innocence and shaping a person to what I need them to be), but it gets in the way far too often. Like how she doesn't know that Earthlings can't handle her level of spiciness in food, or that she doesn't usually understand the far reaching implications of her actions (often inconveniencing others to get what she wants), or that she just doesn't understand what her little toys (gadgets, whatever) are actually capable of.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 06, 2008, 11:58:39 PM
Update!

Pros:

Kind-hearted
Resourceful for gadgets
Good appearance
Devoted
optimism
valor
powers
innocence
wants to live happily with Ataru

Cons:

Naive
Short-tempered
her stuff usually blows up
hyper spicy cooking
tends to over do things
jelous
devious
let's face it... she's evil. It's in her nature as an Oni
wants to live happily with Ataru


Notice I put wants to live happily with Ataru in both. That's cause she wants a live where they are BOTH happy, pro, but WITH Ataru, con cause we all know where that direction leads.






Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: MeganeMan on April 07, 2008, 01:42:56 AM
WOW!  What a great topic. 
Sidzero, you have truly done your homework on Lum ( and  your real life adventures are, sadly, so very true ) and I found the discussion most illuminating. 
Thank you.   _/-\o_
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 07, 2008, 01:51:45 AM
Okay, I think we can start on Ataru now?

Character 2: Ataru Moroboshi

Well this could be difficult to think about... how about we start with discussion on why he runs from Lum but does not ant her to leave him

Again, this topic is for diverse discussion and to help writers with their stories.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Akazukin on April 07, 2008, 03:02:37 AM
The reason Ataru runs From lum is because... He shy. He never really had a girl to love him, he so use to chasing Girls around that it never came to him that one girl really do love him. In my "Ataru really do mean it" story he overcome his fear of shynees to lum
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 07, 2008, 03:23:56 AM
I think it's a little more than that. I believe that Ataru fears commitment with Lum.

I have one idea. That Ataru does not want to be married to Lum cause he wants to be free and such and do his girl-hunting thing and all that other stuff. But he does not know whether or not he'll change his mind about committing to one person later on in his life (he is only 17 after all, the high area) and so he wants to keep Lum around in case he decides on it later cause she's the only one who likes him. This would also be a reason for why he occasionally gives in on going out for dates, to keep her hope up so she doesn't leave him.

So basically, one theory is that he is covering his bases. And that explains why he hates it if someone tries to take her cause she's really the only one he's got. I think that Ataru would eventually settle down with Lum cause whether or not he loses his energy, he still grows older so... can't do it forever

Plus I'm pretty sure Ataru is just smart enough to think that if by the time he is 30 and they still don't get together, Lum might be leaving soon in which case he might settle.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: veehive on April 07, 2008, 03:47:01 AM
First: Ataru is a Contrarian: if you tell him "no", he'll say "yes"; if you say something's green he'll insist it's red. He's an astrological birthsign Aries the Ram (yeah, I used to play around with Astrology) so it's his nature to butt heads with any and all obstacles; his Moon Sign would be Libra (born under a full moon; from the 1st manga story) so he's just that much more inclined to counterpoise any situation.

So, what do you do when your Dream Girl falls into your lap (or on your head, in his case)? If you're a Contrarian, you RUUUUUNNNNNN!!!!

Second: Ataru is afraid of girls. He even tells us so in TV episode 3 (and, just as he admits it, his contrarian nature asserts itself and he leaps to the railing of his balcony to proclaim his defiance of it). His over-the-top come-on's are designed to get him rejected (his 1st line of defense against intimacy).

So, what happens when a girl isn't repulsed and gets Too Close? RUUUUNNNNN!!!!!

Third: No Self-Esteem. Ataru has had NO plan for his life, hasn't applied himself in academic endeavors ... and he knows it. He's unprepared for Adult Life and Adult Responsibilities (Good Grades leading to University leading to Providing for a Wife and Family). He views himself as Not Good Enough.

So, when the prospect of a Wife and Family comes flying in the window? RUUUUNNNNNN!!!!!

Ataru may be the first guy Lum's ever encountered who hasn't fallen head-over-heels for her (okay, second guy, but Rei was just Too Dumb to do so) so she's intrigued by this. However, I doubt that Ataru "knows" he has to keep running from her to keep her interested.

Remember -- YOU ASKED!

(takes me forEVER to type -- 2 replies since I started -- so this'll be out-of-chronology)

vh
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 07, 2008, 03:54:38 AM
For some reason that makes sense but at the same time it just doesn't go... Most of ur stuff is based about the beginning of the series but Ataru's pretty different later on.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: veehive on April 07, 2008, 04:31:35 AM
"... Most of ur stuff is based about the beginning of the series...."

An accurate statement: I'm only up to TV ep. 78, after all. If you prefer replies from only those who have seen the entire TV series, I'll voluntarily step out of this discussion. Just let me know.  :)

"...but Ataru's pretty different later on...."

Dear Lord God In Heaven , I HOPE SO!!!!!  ;D

vh
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 07, 2008, 04:58:50 AM
oooo well then there's a few episodes you haven't seen that would contradict your statement here he actually runs to save her sometimes.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 07, 2008, 05:47:22 AM
And here's where I show you that I know a lot more than just my Lum....

Moroboshi Ataru. To be hit by a fallen star. Such a perfect choice for one cursed with such horrible, terrible luck. At least that's what he's SUPPOSED to be. Read the manga, understand Ataru for Ataru, you'll see what I mean. Ataru was the character most affected by the perversion of the anime. They changed him from the unluckiest boy in the universe, to the most lecherous boy in the universe. I strongly dislike the anime characterization of Ataru, so the Ataru I know, is the one from the manga.

I've always hesitated before, but I might as well admit it. Ataru is my favorite character in the UY Universe. It's almost scary, but when I see him, I see myself, taken back 10 years and driven to the extreme. Trust me, I know where he's coming from because I've pretty much been there, and can easily see myself in his shoes. And it's not really somewhere I'd want to be.

The reason why Ataru is the way he is in regards to Lum, is simply a matter of experience. A little bit of understanding of his personality goes a long way, too. First off, you gotta hand it to the kid, he's braver and smarter than most people take him for. Think about it... you've got your best friend Shinobu, who's been his friend since childhood, and quite obviously the friendship is progressing to a relationship. Considering that he's still just a kid, and demonstrates pretty clearly that he never wants to lose her, she's probably his first love. Makes sense to me, make sense to you?

All of a sudden you're having a fight over some small thing, you have a lousy run-in with some psychotic midget monk, and you come home to find out that the fate of the world is in your hands. But at least things seem to be cool with Shinobu now. And then all of a sudden you find out all you gotta do to save the world is "play tag" with some ultra-hot model looking alien girl who you are quite physically attracted to. As any typical inexperienced teenage boy, it's a knee-jerk reaction. Of course it's another fight with Shinobu, but now the whole world is staring you down and sizing you up. Seeing if you're worth the meat you're made of, because if you're not, they're going to butcher you. Instant fame at a heavy price, I guess.

Now you're all psyched up, and the tag match is ready to start. The gun goes off and all of a sudden the girl can fly. And shoot lightning bolts too. All of a sudden the world is forcing you to prove yourself. I'd be freaked out of my mind if you ask me. Especially when it looks like you're about to lose everything. Then the night before last day, the girl of your dreams, the girl you love more than life itself (that's usually what it feels like right around then)... asks you to marry her. There's a swift kick in the pants as far as morale goes, you'd think.

So he wins the tag match and celebrating your fabulous surprise last minute victory, excited about the way things are going with Shinobu, shouting to yourself about it, and all of a sudden this ultra hot model-looking alien girl (with fangs and horns and pointy ears that can fly and shoot lightning) thinks you're marrying her, right then and there. What the hell is that?

Of course, that starts another fight with Shinobu. Things start looking good again and all of a sudden your best friends are kidnapping you and forcing you into some weird ritual to summon space aliens. And with Ataru's bad luck, of course, it's some kind of alien taxi cab. Of course he doesn't KNOW it's an alien taxi cab, just that he's being abducted by aliens. For me, this would be big freak out explosion number two. I mean come on, you know what happens when you get abducted by aliens. Anal probes. I fear anal probes. Excuse me.

Then the alien drops you off at home and he's like "No anal probes?" somehow slightly disappointed. But that's another story. And not the kind that should be told here. This is a family show... somehow... behind the tits and the cleavage and the girls flying around in underwear and near molesting of nearly every single female character. Anyway... now you owe all the oil on Earth, because you know, your friends kidnapping you and getting in another fight with Shinobu and now being forced into a situation where this ultra hot psychotic space bimbo is the only one that can SAVE your ass and all that is somehow YOUR fault. And to prove the point, you get the shit beat out of you for it by practically everyone you know, the bitch is laying the waterworks on to manipulate you already, and all you want is for all this drama to go away so you can be nice and happy with Shinobu.

Fortunately that doesn't happen because your space-stalker who insists that you're married refuses to let it. She won't even go back to her old boyfriend when he comes begging (and destroying your neighborhood in the process). You'd even give it all up just to go away. Ignore the fact that you meet the hot older lady that turned out to be a nutcase miko? Ignore the fact that you meet the hot alien snow princess of Neptune, even if she's your stalker's friend? Ignore the fact that you meet another hot alien, this time a biker chick that's another one of your stalker's friends? Ignore the hot alien sleeping beauty that only wants a one night stand, despite your stalker's obsessive attempts at preventing it (the hell is it her business anyway, SHE'S the one that thinks she's married, NOT him)?  Then all of a sudden the girl who you were so in love with won't even LOOK at you because she's only got eyes for this rich cocky little bastard that just transfers in? Yeah, I'd probably give up right around there.

Try and try again with Shinobu, and what do you know, every time something looks to be going for the better? Someone butts in. Lum trying to keep you from what you want, or Mendo trying to steal your women... both your women. You could really care less about Lum, but not Shinobu. It's like fate telling you you will never have what you want, you will never be happy, things will never go your way, you are ultimately screwed. This is your life, take it or leave it. You don't like it, but you take it anyway, because what other choice do you have? But you got the girl that's supposed to always be there. Don't you?

Yeah, until around the time you find out that you find off that her space alien daddy is trying to marry her off to someone he thinks is better than you. She seems to go along with it, and you crash the party and find out it's not just someone he thinks is better than you, it's ANYONE he thinks is better than you. The hell is up with that? And she's still going for? Turns out your big spy mission turns into a rescue party when she pulls her head out of the clouds and realizes what's going on, finally.

Anyway... you go though all this garbage early on in the relationship. Including putting up with her bratty little cousin that floats around in his stupid tiger striped diapers who's breath just happens to be a friggin flamethrower. Including her equally crazy, but equally hot childhood best friend who hates her guts and is trying to steal you away (though honestly, could you care less?). Including repeated attacks from her bottomless pit of an ex boyfriend who somehow turns into a giant bull-tiger monster and is obsessed with Lum. Including many times having great opportunities to meet beautiful, NORMAL women and every time being destroyed because of Lum's stalker-like obsession with destroying anything that could resemble ANY kind of relationship with anyone BUT her. But somehow, somewhere along the line, you ended up falling in love with her. After all your antagonizing her, after all your trying to get away from her, after all the times you've had to rescue her from stupid situations she got herself into to prove herself to you, or stop you from doing what you want to do (and all you want to do is find a nice normal woman to spend your time with... not some crazy alien, or hulk-strength amazon woman, or weird nurse-miko older woman, or uber-rich and either uber-strong or uber-snotty younger sister of someone you know... despite your constant flirting with them), you still fall in love with her. You've also found a rather odd assortment of friends and associates who are all out of their minds, but at least the girls are hot who you love equally (though a little less than Lum). But you know, with all that's going on in life, can you blame a guy for not wanting to really settle down right then and there? With all his wacky adventures, who'd want to? That just means life will get boring, I mean look at your parents. I don't know about any of you, but if you get to know your parents, and really get to know them, what they were like before you came along, before they got together... you know they had a lot of cool stuff that would go on in their lives, but always the same thing, once they get married... it's over. Everything fun goes away and it's just... being married. Who wants to get married?


That, to me, sums up Ataru's entire perspective on his relationship with Lum. After things start to settle out between them, and they grow accustomed to one another, and he starts to fall in love with her, there are some pretty powerful factors that weigh against just settling down and letting it happen. Pride is a big one. His pride as a man doesn't want to admit that she was right and he was wrong and that they were just meant for one another. His pride as a man doesn't want to admit that he loves her after spending so long, and trying so hard NOT to love her. The other big factor is that he's just having way too much fun with his life to let it go and settle down. If you went to a theme park that had all the coolest rides, and you didn't even have to wait in line, and never closed... when would you leave? When you get tired? When you get bored? Never? There are a lot of other little factors too, but the two big ones make up the bulk of why.


It's not because he's a "Contrarian" or whatever you want to call it. Sure, that may factor in a little that he likes to do what he's told not to do, and doesn't like to do what he is told to do. But that's just normal for a teenager. That's what they do. They want their independence and take any small liberties they can.

I really completely disagree with him being afraid of girls. Trust me, someone who's afraid of girls isn't going to get that close to them. Fear of rejection doesn't allow for such bravery. He disproves his whole "what happens when a girl gets too close, RUN" theory by his behaviour towards both Ran and (early in the series) Shinobu. And if you wanna go by the anime, I can throw in Elle as well. We can even ignore the many times he actually runs TO Lum as well, though they're always prompted by the idea of losing her.

I also completely disagree with him having no self-esteem. Trust me, someone with no self-esteem isn't going to run from an opportunity like Lum. If someone in Ataru's position had no self-esteem, then instead of Lum chasing after him, he'd probably be smothering her and trying to get AWAY from him. Trust me, I've seen how people with no self-esteem operate when it comes to relationships... they take whatever they can get and run with it, because no matter how good or bad it is, they're afraid they'll never find anything better. I think losing your self-esteem is the reason why people get married, personally. They find something they like, and afraid of still not being able to find anything better, they settle for it and grow into their accustomed little lives. Lack of self-esteem pretty much characterizes everything that Ataru is NOT.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 07, 2008, 06:23:51 AM
wtf man? I'll read that tomorrow
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 07, 2008, 06:40:46 AM
:)
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 07, 2008, 06:57:44 AM
Just something I forgot to say for Lum.

I have a feeling that once she manages to get Ataru settled down and married that she would probably do whatever she can to make him feel comfortable with it. After all even she must understand how he felt about marriage so it seems only fair to reward him however she can.

Although I don't really know what she would do to make him feel comfortable...
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 07, 2008, 05:54:21 PM
I think one of the things that annoys me the most about Lum's character... she DOESN'T understand how Ataru feels. Not at all. He wants freedom, she wants to do everything she can to interfere with that freedom, even though she knows he'll always come back to her. If she really understood how he felt, she would understand that the best way to make those feelings in him grow are to give him freedom, but give him comfort. Let him go out and do his girl chasing (which she should have learned quickly that he never succeeds at it, so why she's afraid someone can take him away in the first place I just don't know), and when he comes back, be there for him, learn to make him comfortable then. Why wait until she "has" him before she does what she needs to to "get" him in the first place?

But she's not the brightest bulb in the drawer, either.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 08, 2008, 12:18:28 AM
I meant that after she gets him to marry her she would most likely treat him really well, as well as she could.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 08, 2008, 04:34:21 AM
I doubt that. It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. Even if you're the old dog you're teaching the tricks to yourself. Like a leopard can't change it's spots or a tiger can't change it's stripes.

And it's even harder to break a habit you don't even realize you're doing.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 08, 2008, 05:04:32 AM
I don't really understand why she would treat him worse after they get married...

Also, I admit that at the beginning of the series I pitied Ataru very much. It was a while before I started to see Lum as more of the good guy, probably cause Shinobu left. But basically before season 2 Ataru was mostly the person who's side you'd be on. He eventually grows to be too much of a womanizer to agree on and so Lum seems like the right person to cheer for.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 08, 2008, 06:30:31 AM
I didn't say worse... just that her abusive treatment of him would not stop so easily.

And that's just the way they rigged the anime, the manga doesn't do that.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Akazukin on April 08, 2008, 02:43:55 PM
As normal sidzero, Bring up hard facts.  ;D
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 08, 2008, 04:01:39 PM
She'd be nicER to him though.

Anyways, here's a hypothetical for Ataru.

Ataru fantasizes about a harem and Lum is usually always in it and according to the second movie she has to be in it.

Do you think he would accept a harem of just Lum's? Like her and clones of her? (Taking away whether or not Lum would do it)
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Akazukin on April 08, 2008, 04:47:12 PM
well... No, see while having a harem with lum, is well Freaking great, just her would be boring. The same girl, (clones also)  every morning, noon, and night, make you want to spice up your life, Get a F.W.B (friends with benefits).  Sure on First thought, Ataru would say "hell yeah!!!" but On second Thought He would have thought of the cons of Having a Lum-only Harem.

Now let's talk about which Lum gets to Have Ataru, the real lum Might have to kill Fourteen of her's Clones just to Hold Ataru hand, and another Twenty just to Kiss him. And let not forget that lum powers, her wits, added to say 50 clones, Its would be a living hell.

But personally that just me
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 08, 2008, 05:49:51 PM
She'd be nicER to him though.

Why? Just because they're together? Sorry, but it doesn't work like that. This is experience talking here. Girl treats you like garbage before you go out... girl is going to continue treating you like garbage when you are going out. Simply because she knows she can do it, and that's the behaviour that has come to be expected of her. It's not that I'm being sexist, but that's just how women's brains are wired.

Do you think he would accept a harem of just Lum's? Like her and clones of her? (Taking away whether or not Lum would do it)

What would be the point? The point of a harem is variety. At least, that was (is?) my reason for wanting one.

Also, since you're all so hooked on the anime as opposed to the manga... just consider the episode where Ran was making copies of Lum, and they all got out and Ataru had 7 Lums to deal with. Did it look like that was ideal for him?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 09, 2008, 01:03:39 AM
Nvm...

Anyways I know that the anime episode made it seem like he was terrified but then he wasn't presented with the opportunity for a Harem.

Problem is that I've never thought about a harem before so I guess I just don't understand the concept as well. In Naruto, he had the "Harem Justu" but that was multiples of the same person too.

Was there a manga chapter for that episode? I can't remember reading it yet. Also I'm not focusing on Lum's interpretation. This is a hypothetical situation where:

Ataru is presented with the chance for his Harem where it is only Lums. Forgetting about what the Lums would do, would he accept it?

Originally I thought Ataru wanted "Just one harem in his life" I'm not saying he wouldn't mind doing it more than once, I'm saying he wants at least one harem before he dies so imagine this Lum harem is a one time thing to calm him down or some other reason that you feel better with.

Why he might accept:

Finally gets a Harem
He said that without Lum the Harem is no good.

Why he might decline:

It's one woman x a number
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: veehive on April 09, 2008, 01:34:51 AM
The point of ... ONE OF  :&  the points of a harem is ... MANY TROPHIES.  MANY DIFFERENT TROPHIES. Think of a Big Game Hunter (gag! choke!) who has ... what, several heads of nearly-similar deer stuffed & mounted and on display on the wall? .... No! He has Many different species from his many different "hunts" littering the walls of his cathedrial-ceiling'd Trophy Room.

 :*)

Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 09, 2008, 02:00:32 AM
There was another one I wanted to ask but can't seem to remember right now...

Here's something I want official known.

Does Ataru love Lum?

I know this is probably a stupid question but knowing sidzero I'm sure he'll not only give the answer but give hard evidence on it as well to make the answer official.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: kyo on April 09, 2008, 06:52:59 AM
yeah he do, just that he stubborn as a ox
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 09, 2008, 07:27:28 AM
Well, I started my hunt for a harem long before I heard of UY and QUITE long before Naruto even came into being. But that's because I like variety. Maybe someday...

No, there was no manga chapter that that episode was based on, it's an anime-exclusive story. But I highly doubt Ataru would accept the Lum-clone harem. Logistically, you just don't get the variety that a normal harem would provide, and really, I see no point to having a harem other than wanting the variety (other than the whole feeling of power, but I don't think the clone harem would give you that, but that's just my opinion). I agree with veehive and his perspective on it... think of it like a trophy room.

As far as Ataru loving Lum... there is no hard evidence, so don't expect me to provide it. Emotions are a hard thing to prove from the outside, because it's an entirely internal thing. It's like trying to prove your favorite color is blue. We can only infer that he does (which I think he does) because of his behaviour. He says he loves all "his women", but he obviously loves Lum more than the rest because of the whole a harem without Lum is pointless thing.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: cata on April 12, 2008, 01:05:01 AM
Just because I'm "alone" here (I'm the only girl in the Forum most of the times) it doesn't mean that guys are better than girls and stuff like that. It's just stupid to say that all girls treat guys like trash and that guys think that women should be washing their underwear at home. This is about a couple (Ataru and Lum) not all men and women. All men are different from other man and the same goes for woman. We can't say that all woman/men think like that or do like this, etc. It's just stupid and irritating!
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 12, 2008, 01:20:01 AM
Thank you for saying that. I honestly think that after Ataru marries Lum she will be nicer towards him. Not to say she won't be strict if she sees him acting like his usually self towards another woman, but that she would try to do things for him.

Lum's main dream, at least according to a couple of episodes, is to be the housewife type after marriage. If that dream comes true why wouldn't she be happy enough to be nicer?

Of course you have to remember that Lum's idea of nice is not always what you expect. She could be trying to do something for Ataru but end up screwing up with explosions.

Holy crap... I'm on the wrong topic -_-''' we were talking about Ataru's Lum Harem thing... umm... yeah that was just a hypothetical scene.

Here's a good question: Would Lum let Ataru have a bachelor party prior to the wedding? I can see Ataru now begging for one.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Jataru on April 12, 2008, 01:32:28 AM
Lum wouldn't let Ataru have it, only if he hide the party from Lum.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 12, 2008, 01:42:17 AM
I know. But thinking about how he would go about it...

First of all he would bring up the fact that he'd be marrying her and that this would be the last time he'd ever get to look at another woman again. He'd probably let her have a bachelorette party if he got his. There's about 100 reasons he could think up...

After all those reasons... Lum MIGHT let him but at the same time she would most likely want something in return.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Jataru on April 12, 2008, 01:48:06 AM
Like what?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 12, 2008, 01:52:49 AM
Good question... probably a romantic honeymoon... somewhere... is Hawaii good?

Anyways... Let's talk about Ataru some more...

let's see... well he's very sneaky and knows some ninjitsu... How about his view on marriage? Now he avoids it with Lum but when it was Shinobu who wanted it he was all for it.

Why might this be?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Jataru on April 12, 2008, 01:55:56 AM
Because Shinobu wasn't always eith Ataru, didn't control him must of the time and must of all she don't give him the great zaps of Lum instead of her huge strenght.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 12, 2008, 01:59:03 AM
But what I'm taking from this is that he doesn't hate marriage then. So what exactly IS his view on marriage?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Jataru on April 12, 2008, 02:03:27 AM
Terrifying, is idea of being only with one women is absolutly unlogical for him that always have wished for an harem.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 12, 2008, 02:09:41 AM
Terrifying... yet he'd marry Shinobu?

I'm wasn't talking about marrying Lum, marriage all together.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 12, 2008, 09:35:50 AM
Just because I'm "alone" here (I'm the only girl in the Forum most of the times) it doesn't mean that guys are better than girls and stuff like that.

I don't think anyone was saying that one was better than the other. When I say things like these, I don't do it to be sexist, I do it to acknowledge a basic psychological difference between the genders. It's not discrimination it's fact. The two genders are wired differently and on top of that, quite unfortunately, society still programs gender biases into us from an early age no matter how "modern" and "equal" it tries to claim. It's ok to be different, and it's ok to acknowledge those differences. And yes, men suck as much as women.

Not to say she won't be strict if she sees him acting like his usually self towards another woman, but that she would try to do things for him.

Like she doesn't try (and fail) to do nice things as is? I know you want all this wishful thinking to come true, and to imagine Lum as some sort of perfect woman (although she was created to be perfectly imperfect), but it just makes no sense. People don't change for people just because the label applied to the status of their relationship changes. This is true NO matter who you are. You can't stop being yourself just because of some little thing like marriage. I've seen a lot of friends and family go through it and it doesn't change people. It just changes situations.

Here's a good question: Would Lum let Ataru have a bachelor party prior to the wedding? I can see Ataru now begging for one.

Assuming they do get married, I don't see why not. That's not saying whether or not she wouldn't spy on him at it somehow, but I'm sure she'd let him have it. And I'm just as sure that she'd have some sort of bachelorette party.

Good question... probably a romantic honeymoon... somewhere... is Hawaii good?

You really think that they would have a honeymoon anywhere on Earth when there's an entire galaxy (or universe, depending on the translation) that they can play in?

How about his view on marriage? Now he avoids it with Lum but when it was Shinobu who wanted it he was all for it.

Why might this be?

Well, I think that has a lot to do with Shinobu (possibly, there's no hard evidence, but the behavior and story strongly suggests it) being Ataru's first love. We tend to go out of our ways for those who become the objects of our first experiences with love. If you read that earlier post I made about Ataru and Lum's relationship, the reason why he's against marrying Lum should make pretty clear sense. Chalk it up to experience.

I don't think it's got anything to do with Shinobu's less aggressive relationship tactics (though it doesn't hurt the matter any). I've explained elsewhere on this board how I see the whole evolution of Ataru's fantasy harem... that being that he hadn't even considered the harem idea until Lum came into his life (notice how the only person he knew before Lum that he fantasizes about being in his harem is the girl he was with before her).


Anyway. If anyone wants any further clarification on those ideas, feel free to ask, I just tried keeping this fairly short, because I don't think anyone actually even reads my posts when they start getting long. I don't blame them, I'd skip them too.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: GiovaneDinamitardo on April 12, 2008, 10:48:05 AM
I have to admit: a good and carefully definition of a character is a true source of inspiration !!!

In fact, when I write my tales, they comes immediatly clears: it seems that the character are really alive and I have nothing to do that talk to you about the hell that they're doing !
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 12, 2008, 11:45:40 PM
Here's a good question: Would Lum let Ataru have a bachelor party prior to the wedding? I can see Ataru now begging for one.

Assuming they do get married, I don't see why not. That's not saying whether or not she wouldn't spy on him at it somehow, but I'm sure she'd let him have it. And I'm just as sure that she'd have some sort of bachelorette party.

Wow, didn't expect you to agree on that. Suddenly I feel very satisfied with my idea pitching.

Good question... probably a romantic honeymoon... somewhere... is Hawaii good?

You really think that they would have a honeymoon anywhere on Earth when there's an entire galaxy (or universe, depending on the translation) that they can play in?

That is a good point but since I don't know many places outside Earth, Hawaii was the best thing I could think of.
Posted on: April 12, 2008, 11:41:23 PM
Also, I don't want to be the only one asking questions.

Anyways... what do you guys think would be the absolute best thing that Lum could do for Ataru, excluding letting him girl-hunt/ have a harem, that would make him happy?

Similarly, vice versa excluding marriage?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 13, 2008, 07:03:23 AM
Wow, didn't expect you to agree on that. Suddenly I feel very satisfied with my idea pitching.

Well, they're just a part of the whole wedding ritual, so I don't see why not.

That is a good point but since I don't know many places outside Earth, Hawaii was the best thing I could think of.

That's when you make something up. I would think that in a galactic society, they would have an entire "paradise" planet that functions as a tourist location. Perfect for honeymoons and what not.

Anyways... what do you guys think would be the absolute best thing that Lum could do for Ataru, excluding letting him girl-hunt/ have a harem, that would make him happy?

Similarly, vice versa excluding marriage?

What Lum could do for Ataru is to wear that old yellow ribbon for a week. She wouldn't have her powers, and Ataru would get to have her as a "normal girl" for that week. After all, for quite some time, that was what he wanted.

What Ataru could do for Lum (possibly in return, better even at the same time) is have him give up girl hunting for a week. Just long enough that he can give her his full attention and she can pretend they're a perfect happy couple for that long.

Now of course, I wouldn't expect either to want to do one for the other, but I'd think they'd both agree on those terms as a compromise eventually.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 13, 2008, 07:08:44 AM
I do like the ribbon thing. I think she would feel nervous about trusting him to do that but I am positive that Lum has her ways of making take it off if he won't. Knowing her she'd probably go for the guilt option.

Question does it say anywhere that denies HER putting the ribbon on and then only she'd be able to take it off right?

I think that would be a great solution for the nocturnal shocking problem so then they can sleep together without Ataru wearing that suit!

BTW... Ataru had finally realized that he's "screwed either way" in that same episode but afterwards he goes back. What happened?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 13, 2008, 07:16:43 AM
The guilt option is her most likely tool if that were the case. Either that or grabbing nearby blunt objects and bashing his skull in (he's immortal, he'd live through it).

No, there's nothing anywhere that says she can't put it on herself, though I would think it should be that way. It just makes sense to me that she wouldn't be able to do it, which could lead to that becoming a plot device to show Lum's trust in Ataru.

I agree with the nocturnal electricity thing (actually, one of my earliest posts on this board was about that very thing... check the alternate endings board). But I would also think that another good solution would be to have her undergo some kind of training thing where she learns to better control her powers (it would also provide an opportunity to come up with new powers for her). I was going to put a sort of gap in the storyline for UYRemix, taking place after the second tag match story, where they both leave for a while to go train... Lum with her powers and Ataru with his ninjitsu (and you'd never believe who I was going to have training him).

And what do you mean "what happened?"
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 13, 2008, 07:21:27 AM
Well in that episode he was like all for sleeping with her, and I am almost 100% sure he thought they were going to "sleep" together, but by the next episode he's back to normal...

Unfortunately... I wouldn't want to have Lum try to trust Ataru with the ribbon in my story. I know I have control over what happens but I... I just don't trust him enough... it's weird...
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 13, 2008, 07:28:59 AM
I don't think Lum would trust him either. He'd need a lot of character building to get them to a point where Lum WOULD trust him. No little short story would get them there.

And in my opinion, the story where they sleep together, ends up being weak, when it could have been a turning point in the series (I was going to write it having a more profound effect on their relationship when I got to that point in UYRemix). Not to mention the story only covers the first night, when they were to have, I think it was 3 nights alone?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 13, 2008, 07:34:52 AM
That I think was another episode itself.

Just checked. She said a 2-day ONE night trip.

Here's a thought... is it possible that Ataru's a virgin? cause when the show started he was 15 and I think that's too young...
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: veehive on April 13, 2008, 05:04:54 PM
"... is it possible that Ataru's a virgin?"

I'd say yeah, at the very beginning of the series (a provocative comment by Ten in ep. 5 makes me think Ataru is virginal at that point).

And, not to sidetrack your question UruseiNeo (I'll happily wait until it's been answered fully), but allow me to propose as the next question: when did Ataru LOSE his virginity? >:)
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 13, 2008, 06:50:17 PM
That wouldn't be sidetracking cause that would've been my next question... he could still be.

If that's the case then Lum could gain an edge on him  >:)
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 13, 2008, 07:23:32 PM
Just checked. She said a 2-day ONE night trip.

My mistake.

Anyway... as far as the status of Ataru's virginity. Absolutely yes he's a virgin. Throughout the entire series. Though he's not 15 through the story, he's 17 (in my UYRemix he was going to start out as 15, because of the fact that I was going to take away the infinite time loop that UY takes place in and actually have proper progression of time through the story), and stays 17 from beginning to end. Anyway, there is no indication whatsoever (not even a change of behaviour and attitude that would suggest it) that Ataru and Lum have sex. I also think that Lum is a virgin as well. Otherwise it would have been a LOT easier for her to make him fall in love with her... all she'd have to do is seduce him, and she'd have him. But she doesn't, which indicates, to me at least, that she is as sexually inexperienced as he is, and still has some sort of stigma attached to sexual behavior.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 13, 2008, 07:30:21 PM
He turns 17 during the episode "Happy Birthday My Darling" and before that episode is the episode where the have Lum's one year on earth celebration so by calculations he should be 15 at the BEGINNING of the series. Jeez... didn't even take HALF the series for him to age 2 years by that assumption...

all she'd have to do is seduce him, and she'd have him. But she doesn't, which indicates, to me at least, that she is as sexually inexperienced as he is, and still has some sort of stigma attached to sexual behavior.

Didn't she try once in episode 3, where Rei arrives? And I'm pretty sure the Manga version she took more than just the bra off...
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 13, 2008, 08:06:43 PM
Logically speaking he SHOULD be 15 when the series starts, but he's 17. The series takes place in an infinite time loop. That's why regardless of how old he should be, how many winters, summers, setsubuns, birthdays, whatevers happen, he's always in class 2-4... which in Japanese schools, is equivalent to our junior years of high school (year 2, class group 4), which, under normal circumstances, is generally ages 16-18 (most people have their 17th birthdays during this year).

She tried, but she also thought they were already married at the time. It may have also been a desperation attempt at trying to "get" Ataru, stealing him away from Shinobu. And no, in the manga version, her bra coming off is as naked as she ever gets.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 13, 2008, 08:14:26 PM
And no, in the manga version, her bra coming off is as naked as she ever gets.

http://www.onemanga.com/Urusei_Yatsura/6/05/
Take a good look at that first box. She's putting her boot back on.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 13, 2008, 08:33:43 PM
I wasn't thinking about her boots. Those come off other times, as well.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 13, 2008, 08:38:27 PM
but it implies she took the rest off cause if she took off the bra and the boots... seems only logical...

Again... only implies...
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 13, 2008, 08:56:28 PM
True. It's possible she was full nude under that blanket. But the lack of evidence (IE: you don't see her boots or her bottom laying around in the background anywhere in that scene) can't prove it one way or another. Either way, like I said, it was probably a desperation attempt to steal his attention away from Shinobu (obviously an unsuccessful one), at a time when he wasn't attracted to her at all (other than the base initial physical attraction).
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 13, 2008, 09:05:02 PM
Okay so we've established that they are both virgins which, to some authors, can be taken advantage of. I don't think we need to go any deeper in this matter so lets move on to something else.

 I currently can't think of anything so sidzero, why don't you start an Ataru topic for us?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 13, 2008, 09:12:56 PM
That's a hard one... what is there to be said that hasn't been said?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 13, 2008, 09:16:50 PM
How about his view on the women of UY? I just wanna cover everything, I know some of these topics seem obvious.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 13, 2008, 09:21:23 PM
What about his view on them?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 13, 2008, 09:30:10 PM
First thing that popped into my head...

Does he really want to have relationships with these other women?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: DarkDevil on April 13, 2008, 09:32:45 PM
He wants to have with all at the same time. He wants them just for him, and nothing else.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 13, 2008, 09:35:47 PM
Of course. He wants them all. The reason he even dreams about his harem is so that he can have them all, and not have to choose one over the other. Of course, Lum is his "number one girl" by the end of the story, but he hasn't given up on the idea completely either. Though if forced to choose, he'd abandon all the other women for Lum (see: the Inaba story arc).
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 13, 2008, 09:39:45 PM
Yeah, at the end of the anime one Lum still is mad. She asks why she was the only one to not see her door even though it wasn't Ataru's fault (I think, I saw it like a year ago) and in addition Ataru tried to save the good door so how could she be mad at him? Again... I think... it wasn't his fault!
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 14, 2008, 07:52:43 AM
Guess she's one of those women that just always needs something to be mad about, huh?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 14, 2008, 04:48:32 PM
how long do you think it would take for Ataru to begin to lose interest in girl-hunting?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 14, 2008, 07:57:38 PM
Probably about 5 years, around the time he passes the general male "sexual peak" at around the age of 21-22. Male libidos tend to start decreasing around that time as our hormone levels begin to normalize. So, it only makes sense that around that time is when he, too, would start to calm himself and begin getting ready to settle down.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: DarkDevil on April 14, 2008, 09:01:51 PM
I'm still not sure.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 19, 2008, 04:44:54 AM
Are we ready to do Ataru's pros and cons?
Posted on: April 15, 2008, 12:37:28 AM
I guess I'll start...

Pros:

Cons:

Perverted
Unfaithful
Annoying
Won't die easy
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Surudoi on April 19, 2008, 05:06:09 AM
Pros:

Wont die easily
Determined
Wont hit a girl

Cons:

Stupid
Perverted
Unfaithful
Annoying
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: DarkDevil on April 19, 2008, 04:03:09 PM
"Won't die easy" should be in both, "pros" and "cons".
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 19, 2008, 06:00:14 PM
I'll agree to that ^_^
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Surudoi on April 19, 2008, 10:09:40 PM
Sure i can go with that
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 23, 2008, 12:37:22 AM
Update:

Pros:

Wont die easily
Determined
Wont hit a girl
Knows Ninjitsu

Cons:

Won't Die Easily
Stupid
Perverted
Unfaithful
Annoying
Commitment Issues
Posted on: April 20, 2008, 03:07:52 AM
Unless anyone has any objections, what character should we discuss next?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Kroptik on April 23, 2008, 01:51:55 AM
How about Shinobu?

That will make an interesting discussion. :P
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 23, 2008, 02:41:35 AM
Character 3: Shinobu

Actually I've been meaning to have a Shinobu discussion.

Obviously she's done with Ataru, aside from him throughout the TV series she wants to be with Mendou. However, in the OAV's (And some of the manga? Haven't gotten that far) she appears to be with Inaba.

Is it safe for fanfiction writers to assume that, after the anime, Shinobu is done with Mendou and has moved on to Inaba?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Surudoi on April 23, 2008, 03:30:16 AM
Yup Shinobu gets over Mendou and goes to Inaba
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 23, 2008, 07:52:40 PM
Shinobu got over Mendo in the manga around the same time as (and probably because of) Asuka showing up in his life. She pretty much realized her place when Mendo pretty much threw her aside like nothing as soon as he found out that Asuka wasn't some ugly brute woman in a suit of armor, and went ahead with the omiai. It wasn't too long afterwards that Shinobu met Inaba passed out in the street, and fell in love with him (it was probably as much being in the right place at the right time to catch her on the rebound as much as it was the fact that he's a decent sort of fellow).
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Surudoi on April 23, 2008, 08:53:03 PM
Too bad she doesn't get the brightest people in the bucket though.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: DarkDevil on April 23, 2008, 09:14:28 PM
Yes, that's true. She could have a better life.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 23, 2008, 09:25:15 PM
Same could be said for any of us, but them's the breaks, kid.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: DarkDevil on April 23, 2008, 11:52:42 PM
The body's age is never the same as the brain's development.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 23, 2008, 11:59:22 PM
That's not true, that's not true at all. That's just a fable that children believe to make them feel better about themselves, or better than others, and that pedophiles believe so they can justify to themselves that it's ok to sleep with 14-16 year old girls that think they're mature. Psychologically and physically our bodies (including our brain, which if you never noticed, is actually a body part) don't finish developing until around the age of 21-22. That's actually why alcohol is illegal if you're under the age of 21, it's been proven to stunt development (and in the alcohol-centric society we live in, breaking that law is why so many adults are emotionally and mentally stunted... at least that's what I think).

What I believe you WANT to say is that physical age doesn't affect the development of the MIND, which in a way can be considered true, depending on your interpretation of what exactly the mind is. Scientists can't agree on what it is, so it's one of those things that's open to interpretation.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Surudoi on April 24, 2008, 12:07:47 AM
Alcohol before 21 is mostly illegal in the States and in some provinces in Canada, that I know of.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: DarkDevil on April 24, 2008, 12:15:19 AM
That's not true, that's not true at all. That's just a fable that children believe to make them feel better about themselves, or better than others, and that pedophiles believe so they can justify to themselves that it's ok to sleep with 14-16 year old girls that think they're mature. Psychologically and physically our bodies (including our brain, which if you never noticed, is actually a body part) don't finish developing until around the age of 21-22. That's actually why alcohol is illegal if you're under the age of 21, it's been proven to stunt development (and in the alcohol-centric society we live in, breaking that law is why so many adults are emotionally and mentally stunted... at least that's what I think).
What you were saying was about the chemistry that brain creats/orders to creat, to itself or the rest of te body.
I thought that you people, of now a days, didn't mind about the technical terms.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 24, 2008, 12:24:58 AM
Back to Shinobu plz ^_^ so we, as fanfiction writers who need to know this, can safely say Shinobu is with Inaba after all anime and manga events?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Kroptik on April 24, 2008, 01:42:37 AM
I think it's safe to say that she will end up with Inaba.

Besides, I can see Inaba changing the futures so that happens for sure (though this goes more towards Inaba's description, and that's for later).

And on Shinobu, let's not forget 2 of the most important aspects about her:
-She's the most popular girl in 2-4 besides Lum
-When she's mad, you better get out of her way ;D
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 24, 2008, 01:45:22 AM
very well put Kroptik.

Okay so we have established that she is currently in a relationship with Inaba. Does she like him like she used to like Mendou or is it more of a friend basis?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 24, 2008, 02:47:29 AM
Alcohol before 21 is mostly illegal in the States and in some provinces in Canada, that I know of.

It's 21 in a lot of places. True, the US and Canada are the "big" ones, but there are a few places in Europe and South America where it is too (last I heard, at least).

Generally, our bodies are developed by 18-19 (18 being legal drinking age in most other countries where it's not 21, and a few places where it's 16), but our brains and endocrine system (hormones and what not) don't finish full development until 21-22.

What you were saying was about the chemistry that brain creats/orders to creat, to itself or the rest of te body.
I thought that you people, of now a days, didn't mind about the technical terms.

Generally no. But the difference between the brain and mind... too big to ignore.

Back to Shinobu plz ^_^ so we, as fanfiction writers who need to know this, can safely say Shinobu is with Inaba after all anime and manga events?

It seems to be STARTING at least. But I don't think she's grown as immediately attached to him as she did to Mendo, or was to Ataru at the beginning, which suggests to me, that she likes him, but doesn't love him. It seems to me like it would be a relationship that she's in to make herself feel better after her relationships before, to help her get over Ataru and Mendo (both of whom I think she still harbors a little bit of feelings for). The fact that he's an extradimensional being who isn't able to devote the time to a proper relationship is part of why Shinobu is attracted to him. If she doesn't get as close physically, she won't get as close emotionally, and it won't hurt as much when the relationship inevitably ends. Inaba on the other hand is quite taken with Shinobu (likely because she's the first girl that ever showed interest in him, and he seems awfully insecure to me), and considering his position as they guy who controls fate, and knowing Shinobu's personality, they're likely to stay together because of Inaba's doing. Whether or not this would come to pass, or it would get him in trouble and be prevented by the Fate Production Bureau, that's up to the individual writers. Lots of things could happen in that. Personally, I think Shinobu's going to end up getting frustrated at men altogether and become a lipstick lesbian (after Inaba somehow screws up, likely because she finds out that he made the future so that they're together, but her feelings for him aren't sure, and she gets pissed and never sees him again). But that's just my vision of things.

-She's the most popular girl in 2-4 besides Lum

Actually, that would be Ryuunosuke. Shinobu ranks third among the popularity of the girls in the class.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 24, 2008, 02:54:28 AM
quite nice

So we've established her love situation. We know that Shinobu is very strong. I wouldn't say as strong as Asuka though but with how they both so easily knock things into the skies it's really hard to tell which one is officially stronger (Although I'd say Asuka is)
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 24, 2008, 03:42:36 AM
I'd say it's pretty clear who's stronger. Asuka by far. Asuka can run faster than the average human being, WHILE wearing a fairly hefty suit of armor, AND can rip a tank apart with her bare hands and shape the armor plating into her own suit of armor. Shinobu can juggle desks. Hmmm.

You also have to consider that Asuka, like Ryoko, is a few years younger than the rest of the gang. Making the feats all the more impressive.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 24, 2008, 04:10:08 AM
too true

But remember that juggling desks is not the extent of her strength, she is usually used when something heavy needs to be moved or opened. Saying she juggles desks seems to mock her strength.

What I find most humorous is how she can have such strength and then, when not in use of her power, acts like a normal girl and says something that makes it seem like she doesn't have that strength.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 24, 2008, 06:20:53 AM
She's like a teenage Japanese girl version of the Hulk, who doesn't become muscular and green (or blue, or grey). I think it's because of the entire source of her power is her anger. If you want to discuss some things about characters... let us discuss the nature of whatever powers they may have. How is Lum able to shoot lightning and fly? Obviously it's not really because she's an Oni, after all, Rei can't fly, but he can transform, and doesn't shoot lightning, Ten can fly, and instead of shooting lightning, he's got flamethrower breath. What is the nature of Ataru's immortality? How about this one, where did he learn those ninja skills he has when he isn't involved with the ninja world (made obvious by the Kaede storyline)? What about Mendo and Tobimaro? Where did their families get all that money? We know the Mizukunoji family made their fortune selling sporting goods, but what of the Mendo Corporation? Of course, there's the question of Shinobu's strength. And how Sakura can be such a bottomless pit. Why is it that Benten is the only regular alien cast member that doesn't seem to have any sort of powers? So many questions regarding the special skills and abilities of the cast. No answers. None. It's all speculative.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 24, 2008, 06:56:56 AM
if you're gonna ask those questions you mind as well ask how there are aliens too.

Urusei Yatsura is not meant to make sense in any of those categories. In fact a lot of episodes are unresolved.

Anyways, I think she can summon her strength without anger. I've seen her juggle desks with a calm face, though she may be thinking angry thoughts.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 24, 2008, 07:31:30 AM
Well, the alien idea worked for Star Trek and Star Wars (contemporary examples), I don't see why it would be any different for UY. The only question I could really see is why are there so many aliens that are humanoid. I always liked the answer Star Trek gave (in an episode of The Next Generation). Look it up if you don't know it, I don't want to spoil it.

The ONLY time I've ever seen Shinobu use her strength when she wasn't angry was during the Matsutake episode, when everyone was performing "acts" because they were tripping on mushrooms. That was the ONLY time, and most of that episode was anime-exclusive, so I don't really count it too much.


Oh, and btw, I had all those questions worked out for UYRemix, but I don't really feel like sharing my answers just yet (I still have hopes of one day being able to do UYRemix).
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 24, 2008, 04:23:43 PM
she also juggled desks in that talent show, I think, with the little octopus like thing that made things disappear.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Akazukin on April 26, 2008, 02:17:50 AM
I recall her using super strength to save mendo from being turn into a Hunksicle (That was so wrong of me to say 8|) in Movie one
In her words "Men be damned."
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Surudoi on April 26, 2008, 08:26:18 PM
nothing much to add but: lol...Hunksicle
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 26, 2008, 08:45:54 PM
I see Shinobu as being nice enough to be one of Ataru's friends but angry enough to tear him to shreds if he makes a move.

Out of all the UY girls, besides Lum, I think Shinobu is hit on the least by Ataru. Probably because they have a little bit of friendship and also that they've known each other since... grade 1, elementary school
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Akazukin on April 28, 2008, 11:48:24 PM
nothing much to add but: lol...Hunksicle
please don't repeat it, I wash my hands every hour but the letters are still there   :r :r :r
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 29, 2008, 12:29:34 AM
What else is there to talk about for Shinobu? We can talk about her relationship with Lum
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on April 29, 2008, 03:25:52 AM
I think it might be more fun if you talked about her relationship with Ryuunosuke. :)
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on April 29, 2008, 03:44:19 AM
When I said relationship I meant how much of friends they are now.

Well for Ryuunosuke... I THINK they're just friends. But they often play a couple is certain scenarios...
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: cata on September 23, 2008, 11:06:52 PM
Shinobu and Lum... Rivalry and still friends. I actually went through a phase in my life that me and a huge friend of mine fell for the same guy and guess what? We kept ourselves single and still friends. x) In Shinobu and Lum's case it's kinda different. They only seem to get 100% along when Shinobu is over Ataru and Mendo. About Shinobu and Ryu I have a lot to say.

I know that most straight and bisexual guys (NOT ALL of them) find lesbians and bisexual girls attractive but about gay and bisexual men really disgusting. I believe that being homosexual or bisexual is not a choice because I know that people can't control their feelings. I don't have to say this but I feel like I should because I'm not ashamed and I'm already "out of the closet" so here goes: I'm a member of the GLBT community and I'm really open-minded because I don't judge people I simply try to see things from their points of view. We don't know if Ryu is a lesbian or if it's just admiring and envying girly girls. As for Shinobu I don't think she's a lesbian because she really liked Ataru and Mendou and even Rei if I'm not mistaken. Maybe she is bisexual or maybe she is just tired of men and tries to look for a solution in a girl looking guy. Anyways, I don't think the purpose of UY was to show homosexual perspective or not. But... come to think about it... maybe it was intentional to show the "gay world".

I'm sorry if I'm being too "rude" about this issue but I don't think we should censure a text or a speech just because it contains words like "gay".
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: FallinG_StaR on September 24, 2008, 01:24:21 AM
Indeed... I have friends that are Gay... at least I think they are... XD

But I don't think Shinobu or Ryu are lesbians... but we never know... I think they just admire each other... well... at least Ryu admires Shinobu because of her strenght and ability to maintain a lady like posture... and beating the crap out of Ataru... XD

Now Shinobu... Idk... I think she sees in Ryu her perfect man... XD
Or like the episode when Ryu 1st showed all girls in School thought she was a he and send her love letters... and even after finding out he was a she they still admired her... and send love letters XD
So... and from all my experience... with Ecchi anime... and normal anime... there's always someone that's bisexual or gay... but as in a friendly way...


Btw, congratulations on coming out of the closet... So that's where you where all this time...  ;D
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on September 24, 2008, 04:11:34 AM
I lost track of where we were on this topic Can someone help me out?

I'm pretty sure we were discussing Shinobu, in which case the previous posts aren't off topic.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: FallinG_StaR on September 25, 2008, 12:32:53 AM
I think this topic was something about... Idk...

I just replied to Cata post... XD
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: cata on September 25, 2008, 02:01:33 AM
Good one Falling! xD I just replied to the comments about Ryunnosuke and Shinobu but I think we can always move on to another character in this topic as it wouldn't be offtopic.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Cosmic King on September 25, 2008, 03:08:57 AM
I don't have to say this but I feel like I should because I'm not ashamed and I'm already "out of the closet" so here goes: I'm a member of the GLBT community and I'm really open-minded because I don't judge people I simply try to see things from their points of view.

Offtopic: No matter what your choices are,we will keep loving ya,Cata-chan ;D

As Cata just mentioned early,it was a great thing to have Lum and Shinobu as friends instead of rivals as in the early episodes,such aspect proves that even the most hated enemies can become friends in the end
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: cata on September 25, 2008, 10:20:40 PM
Lum and Shinobu stopped being rivals because there was nothing else to fight for.

It's great to know that you support me guys. ^^
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: DarkDevil on October 04, 2008, 11:37:46 PM
Me, allways! ... ok, almost...
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Akazukin on October 05, 2008, 12:49:28 AM
Lum and Shinobu stopped being rivals because there was nothing else to fight for.

It's great to know that you support me guys. ^^
We always be here no matter what happens-Right guys?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: dak on October 05, 2008, 10:38:57 AM
She's like a teenage Japanese girl version of the Hulk, who doesn't become muscular and green (or blue, or grey). I think it's because of the entire source of her power is her anger. If you want to discuss some things about characters... let us discuss the nature of whatever powers they may have. How is Lum able to shoot lightning and fly? Obviously it's not really because she's an Oni, after all, Rei can't fly, but he can transform, and doesn't shoot lightning, Ten can fly, and instead of shooting lightning, he's got flamethrower breath. What is the nature of Ataru's immortality? How about this one, where did he learn those ninja skills he has when he isn't involved with the ninja world (made obvious by the Kaede storyline)? What about Mendo and Tobimaro? Where did their families get all that money? We know the Mizukunoji family made their fortune selling sporting goods, but what of the Mendo Corporation? Of course, there's the question of Shinobu's strength. And how Sakura can be such a bottomless pit. Why is it that Benten is the only regular alien cast member that doesn't seem to have any sort of powers? So many questions regarding the special skills and abilities of the cast. No answers. None. It's all speculative.
There is no proof to answer your questions.
Everything i said here is just my speculativeness

First one about Lum, Ten, Rei.
Let me take an example, you and me are human but we living in different countries, talking different language, having different habits. There are many differents between us but we still the same, still human.
So do they. Lum, Ten, Rei, Ten's mother, Mr Invander may have different particular trait but they are Oni. Oni's people may not living in different countries like human, they living in different clans and each clan's people have their own abilities. Oni's state, if i'mnot mistake, is Empire institution and biggest, strongest clan control the rest, and Mr Invander's clan must be that control.

Second one about Ataru's immortal and his skill.
About his skill, he act like they belong to ninja's skill but i think they look more like survive skill, run, sneak, trick,...And if i remember clearly he used to say : When the Oni go away, the mice will play. Are ninja mice?
About his immortal, there are two suppositions, the first one: he isn't human, the second one: the spirit entice bad spirits toward him protect him

Third one about Benten
She not Oni, she is belong to God race( if it can be called a race). and there is a little imformation about God race or its people tht they are kind of aggressive and full of skill in combat.

Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Kroptik on October 05, 2008, 12:39:25 PM
What about Ran?

-She's not human since she comes from space
-She's not an oni because she can't fly and doesn't have horns
-She's not a lucky God because she doesn't appear in the oni vs lucky gods thing (sorry, forgot the name)
-So what is she?

And you forgot to say Oyuki is a Neptuniun (Queen).
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: dak on October 05, 2008, 03:30:55 PM
I can answer about Ran but Oyuki is quite difficult, and of course they are my speculativeness

First about Ran:
Let me take an example, what will happen if human isn't the only race that reach the brain stage.
what will happen if there is another races like gorilla or tiger reach the brain stage, that mean the one who rule the Earth will not only human but also another races.
But it didn't happen on Earth, human still the one and only one who rule the Earth.
But it may happen on planet where Oni is living. There maybe not only Oni on that planet but also another races though they may have little population than Oni's, and Ran belong to one of those races.

About Oyuki, the story only tell that she is Lum's childhood friend and be queen on Nepture, that all. And she only living on Nepture, that mean she belong to another and except her relationship with Lum and Benten, she have nothing to do with Oni and God
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Akazukin on October 05, 2008, 04:16:55 PM
That alot to take in :nosmile2:
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: FallinG_StaR on October 05, 2008, 05:50:56 PM
What the hell is a brain stage??? XD

That's impossible... Well at least in real life... have you ever seen Planet of the Apes?

Its impossible for to evolved species to live in same planet unless the other enslaves the weaker race...

But that is just my speculations... on your speculations... XD
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Kroptik on October 05, 2008, 06:45:56 PM
No ,that's just Planet of the Apes. If animals can share their spaces with other animals, why couldn't humans share the planet with other intelligent lifeforms.

Sure they'd be racism, but Ataru has 2 Onis living with him, doesn't he? :P
And if we can take it, so can the rest of humanity.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: dak on October 05, 2008, 07:00:17 PM
What the hell is a brain stage??? XD
sr that the result of low english vocabulary

Its impossible for to evolved species to live in same planet unless the other enslaves the weaker race...

But that is just my speculations... on your speculations... XD
you got me that one ;D
ok let see if i can protect my speculation, umh, if i'm not mistake Oni's regime is Empire regime, and they use their power and tradition to conquer another races, Ran's race maybe in one of those races be conquered by Oni but the Oni just put her race under their control not enslaves them.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: veehive on October 05, 2008, 09:21:23 PM
This may help steer the course of this discussion:

In TV episode 33 -- where Ten loses his horn -- he speaks of Ran's relationship with himself and Lum, saying "The Oni-races have strong bonds between them" (from the U.S. English subtitles).
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: FallinG_StaR on October 06, 2008, 01:18:40 AM
That means Ran is a Oni? ... But from a different race/type of Oni???
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: dak on October 06, 2008, 03:17:44 AM
two branch from an origin, maybe
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: veehive on October 06, 2008, 03:58:38 AM
Perhaps different tribes ... or different clans ...? Just a thought.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: dak on October 06, 2008, 04:03:07 AM
Perhaps different tribes ... or different clans ...? Just a thought.
somehow i got a bad feeling about the way you use those words
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: veehive on October 06, 2008, 05:20:19 AM
What? You think I'm gonna launch into one of my long-winded replies?

Naaah.

(and nothing "bad" meant by my word-choice up yonder) ;D

Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: dak on October 06, 2008, 08:28:10 AM
ha ha it just my imagination ;D
sr about that
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: cata on October 06, 2008, 10:42:19 PM
OMG! I think I know what Ran is! She's Mayuka! LOL. Wait not really but her father which we never saw before is an Oni and her mother is a human living on Space. That's believeble right?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on October 06, 2008, 11:15:16 PM
Why can't Ran just be another type of alien all together? I mean I know Ran and Lum were childhood friends and hung out all the time but c'mon... so did Benten and Oyuki and they obviously don't live on the same planet.

Their entire school was FILLED with different aliens from different planets.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: cata on October 06, 2008, 11:17:03 PM
So? It's an "International School". It's like the best school of all. That's why both princesses, God and "half-oni" Ran were there. xD
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on October 06, 2008, 11:21:57 PM
I'm just saying that Ran doesn't have to be oni at all. Nor does she have to have lived on that planet.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: dak on October 07, 2008, 05:20:25 AM
OMG! I think I know what Ran is! She's Mayuka! LOL. Wait not really but her father which we never saw before is an Oni and her mother is a human living on Space. That's believeble right?
That weird but have you ever seen a marriage earth woman wear an outfit look like bikini even when she go outside?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: cata on October 07, 2008, 10:26:59 PM
Dude... In Rome be Roman. In Oniboshi be Oni. =D
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: dak on October 08, 2008, 06:51:25 PM
Even so where is her horns?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: FallinG_StaR on October 09, 2008, 01:02:12 AM
Isn't the horns the thing that gives power to the onis?

Maybe since their leader is a Warlord... maybe rival factions have their horns removed... I don't know... XD

To many japanese movies... sometimes they cut the hair of enemy samurais...
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: dak on October 09, 2008, 08:45:48 AM
if i not mistake, to samurai, hair is something important like swords and spirit.
but even her father's horn was removed, she will still have horn even she is half Oni( like Mayuka)
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: cata on October 09, 2008, 10:01:14 PM
Maybe she has one horn (like Jariten) in the middle of her head but she has lots of hair so we cannot see it. Or... maybe Ran and her Mother left their planet. Like immigrants or something. (sorry for bad english writting) :x
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on October 09, 2008, 11:09:37 PM
There is no hard evidence that Ran is an Oni. If she was an Oni, for one she would more likely wear tiger strips. For two, I don't think her hair would be red; most Oni's have green or dark hair.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Kroptik on October 10, 2008, 01:44:59 AM
Also, female Onis all have two horns (Lum, Lum's mother, Ten's mother) and Ran doesn't seem to have any.

I still think she's half-Oni from her father's side, because we never see her father in the show.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on October 10, 2008, 01:55:09 AM
male Oni's can have two horns two. Ex: Lum's Dad and Rei. I think Ten has 1 horn cause he's jut that young.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: dak on October 10, 2008, 04:32:11 AM
What about her mother doesn't belong to Human race, she belong to God race?
From what i see from episodes, Ran use stuff like guns and grenades like Benten.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on October 10, 2008, 05:19:36 AM
How did we get to a discussion on whether Ran is an Oni or a God race?

The group is Lum, Oyuki, Benten, and Ran. This group is diverse in types of aliens. By law of story writing, they all must be from different planets, that's just how people write. Generally, a group is diversified so that they can expand on stuff.

Now, if two of them were of the same race, then generally those two would be very close compared to the others in the group. Ran is not really close with anyone.

If Rumiko meant Ran to be an Oni, she would have mentioned that.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: dak on October 10, 2008, 08:37:39 AM
This may help steer the course of this discussion:

In TV episode 33 -- where Ten loses his horn -- he speaks of Ran's relationship with himself and Lum, saying "The Oni-races have strong bonds between them" (from the U.S. English subtitles).
there are nothing like that in manga, don't know it RT's idea or director's idea
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Akazukin on November 02, 2008, 07:49:52 PM
How did we get to a discussion on whether Ran is an Oni or a God race?

The group is Lum, Oyuki, Benten, and Ran. This group is diverse in types of aliens. By law of story writing, they all must be from different planets, that's just how people write.
There a law!?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Kroptik on November 05, 2008, 01:21:53 AM
It's one of those unwritten anime laws that say that all characters in a group will have different advantages/disadvantages. So what better way to make them different then they being from different alien races altogether?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 05, 2008, 01:25:31 AM
couldn't have said it better myself, in fact I think it should be Anime Law #101
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: DarkDevil on November 05, 2008, 01:42:51 AM
What's Anime Law #100?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 05, 2008, 01:57:26 AM
I think something about anything and everything can happen. The list is on this site.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: dak on November 05, 2008, 10:44:18 AM
I think something about anything and everything can happen. The list is on this site.
sr but can't understand you
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 05, 2008, 03:39:21 PM
I think the 100th law is "anything and everything can happen" (in an anime)
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Kroptik on November 06, 2008, 12:02:15 AM
Quote
#100 Law of Anime Events
Much like wrestling, anything and everything can happen.

Quoted from our very own forum. :P
http://www.lum-chan.com/index.php?page=58
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: FallinG_StaR on November 06, 2008, 01:25:45 AM
I like this 2 "laws"... because its so damn common in all animes XD

#32 Law of Follicular Permanence

#48 Law of Electrical and Combustible Survivalism
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 06, 2008, 01:28:05 AM
could you define these two?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Kroptik on November 06, 2008, 01:33:07 AM
Quote
#32 Law of Follicular Permanence
Hair in anime is pretty much indestructible, and can resist any amount of meteorological conditions, energy emissions, physical abuse, or explosive effects and still look perfect. The only way to hurt someone’s hair is the same way you deal with demons... with bladed weapons!

Quote
#48 Law of Electrical and Combustible Survivalism
If you get electrocuted or burned, YOU WILL SURVIVE!! Though your entire body will be scorched, seconds later, your skin won’t have a trace of damage (Also known as the "Pikachu Effect").

As for me, law 31 is a MUST.
Quote
#31 Law of Follicular Chromatic Variability
Any color in the visible spectrum is considered a natural hair color. This color can change without warning or explanation.

What would Lum be without her natural green hair? :o
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 06, 2008, 01:41:47 AM
This is MY favorite law:

#16 Laws of Inverse Accuracy

The accuracy of a "Good Guy" when operating any form of firearm increases as the difficulty of the shot increases. The accuracy of the "Bad Guys" when operating firearms decreases when the difficulty of the shot decreases (Also known as the Stormtrooper Effect). Example: A "Good Guy" in a drunken stupor being held upside down from a moving vehicle will always hit, and several battalions of "Bad Guys" firing on a "Good Guy" standing alone in the middle of an open field will always miss.

First Corollary: The more "Bad Guys" there are, the less likely they will hit anyone or do any real damage.

Second Corollary: Whenever a "Good Guy" is faced with insurmountable odds, the "Bad Guys" line up in neat rows, allowing the hero to take them all out with a single burst of automatic fire and then escape.

Third Corollary: Whenever a "Good Guy" is actually hit by enemy fire, it is in a designated "Good Guy Area", usually a flesh wound in the shoulder or arm, which restricts the "Good Guy" from doing anything more strenuous than driving, firing weaponry, using melee weapons, operating heavy machinery, or doing complex martial arts maneuvers.

Fourth Corollary: The more times the "Bad Guy" fires, the fewer times he will hit.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: FallinG_StaR on November 06, 2008, 02:25:23 AM
LoL... thats so true... but that works everywhere... from anime to Hollywood... XD
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 06, 2008, 02:31:37 AM
I know, that's why I love it XD
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: dak on November 06, 2008, 03:48:02 AM
Quote
#100 Law of Anime Events
Much like wrestling, anything and everything can happen.

Quoted from our very own forum. :P
http://www.lum-chan.com/index.php?page=58

thank for info big bro.

This is MY favorite law:

#16 Laws of Inverse Accuracy

The accuracy of a "Good Guy" when operating any form of firearm increases as the difficulty of the shot increases. The accuracy of the "Bad Guys" when operating firearms decreases when the difficulty of the shot decreases (Also known as the Stormtrooper Effect). Example: A "Good Guy" in a drunken stupor being held upside down from a moving vehicle will always hit, and several battalions of "Bad Guys" firing on a "Good Guy" standing alone in the middle of an open field will always miss.

First Corollary: The more "Bad Guys" there are, the less likely they will hit anyone or do any real damage.

Second Corollary: Whenever a "Good Guy" is faced with insurmountable odds, the "Bad Guys" line up in neat rows, allowing the hero to take them all out with a single burst of automatic fire and then escape.

Third Corollary: Whenever a "Good Guy" is actually hit by enemy fire, it is in a designated "Good Guy Area", usually a flesh wound in the shoulder or arm, which restricts the "Good Guy" from doing anything more strenuous than driving, firing weaponry, using melee weapons, operating heavy machinery, or doing complex martial arts maneuvers.

Fourth Corollary: The more times the "Bad Guy" fires, the fewer times he will hit.

that the reason why i can't take those action films on HBO or Cinemax ( put a side those famous one ), these kind of film always make the main character look like an immortal hero, while the bad guys look like a bunch of idiots. Boring.

Anyway, i think we should get back to where we left, Shinobu....just my opinion xD
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on November 22, 2008, 10:48:39 AM
Playing catchup can be fun...


I believe that being homosexual or bisexual is not a choice because I know that people can't control their feelings.

Lesbian, gay, bi, straight, none of these matter because none of these really exist. They're just lines we draw in the sand to separate ourselves from one another as different groups (this coming from someone currently studying sociology, fun stuff). I believe that we humans are all built to be bisexual in nature. Our sexual preferences are dictated for us by our environments and our experiences. Heterosexuality is only so common because it's what's called a "social norm". Homosexuality exists for the sole purpose of opposing that social norm, much the same way people become "punks" or any other type of nonconformist. When you think about sexuality from this perspective, you even start to see why we have so many of these strange fetishes you see when you browse internet porn. Balloon fetishes and foot fetishes and fecal fetishes and what not. People become curious, they experiment, they discover they like something, and then they redefine themselves by it as some new identity. Personally I don't see the point in the matter. Like who or what you like, what business is it of anyone else's unless you make it their business. If anyone is really curious, I can share some of my other deeper insights into human behavior, but I'll leave this at that and move on now...


Oni's people may not living in different countries like human, they living in different clans and each clan's people have their own abilities. Oni's state, if i'mnot mistake, is Empire institution and biggest, strongest clan control the rest, and Mr Invander's clan must be that control.

You're starting to sound like you somehow read some of the ideas I had for UYRemix. You're not a spy, are you? I guess you could say great minds think alike, but I can't say whether or not your mind is as great as mine. :D


What about Ran?

She, like all the other aliens in UY is based on a Japanese mythological creature. I forget what they were called, but they're somewhat similar to what we in the western world would call a vampire.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: dak on November 22, 2008, 04:22:03 PM
Playing catchup can be fun...


I believe that being homosexual or bisexual is not a choice because I know that people can't control their feelings.

Lesbian, gay, bi, straight, none of these matter because none of these really exist. They're just lines we draw in the sand to separate ourselves from one another as different groups (this coming from someone currently studying sociology, fun stuff). I believe that we humans are all built to be bisexual in nature. Our sexual preferences are dictated for us by our environments and our experiences. Heterosexuality is only so common because it's what's called a "social norm". Homosexuality exists for the sole purpose of opposing that social norm, much the same way people become "punks" or any other type of nonconformist. When you think about sexuality from this perspective, you even start to see why we have so many of these strange fetishes you see when you browse internet porn. Balloon fetishes and foot fetishes and fecal fetishes and what not. People become curious, they experiment, they discover they like something, and then they redefine themselves by it as some new identity. Personally I don't see the point in the matter. Like who or what you like, what business is it of anyone else's unless you make it their business. If anyone is really curious, I can share some of my other deeper insights into human behavior, but I'll leave this at that and move on now...

once again , you earn my respect for your knowledge.

Playing catchup can be fun...

Oni's people may not living in different countries like human, they living in different clans and each clan's people have their own abilities. Oni's state, if i'mnot mistake, is Empire institution and biggest, strongest clan control the rest, and Mr Invander's clan must be that control.

You're starting to sound like you somehow read some of the ideas I had for UYRemix. You're not a spy, are you? I guess you could say great minds think alike, but I can't say whether or not your mind is as great as mine. :D


that the result you get when play too much RPG
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 22, 2008, 06:17:36 PM
She, like all the other aliens in UY is based on a Japanese mythological creature. I forget what they were called, but they're somewhat similar to what we in the western world would call a vampire.

Thankyou, people keep arguing that Ran could be an Oni.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on November 22, 2008, 07:30:45 PM
No, she's definitely not an Oni. I would think the fact that she doesn't ever wear tiger-striped clothing (one of those things that signify Oni in UY, even ignoring that she has no horns) would have given that away.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: veehive on November 23, 2008, 12:16:30 AM
In TV episode 33 -- where Ten loses his horn -- he speaks of Ran's relationship with himself and Lum, saying "The Oni-races have strong bonds between them" (from the U.S. English subtitles).
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 23, 2008, 12:24:38 AM
I don't remember that at all. When in the episode?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: veehive on November 23, 2008, 05:43:40 PM
Mmmm ... without getting it out to track it down: just past the half, where Lum and Ten are in the classroom and Ran has just delivered the pill to help (Lum's) horns re-grow. Ran exits, and Lum & Ten comment to each other about Ran's generosity.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 23, 2008, 06:09:23 PM
he may have been saying that the Oni Races have strong bonds between them (as in between the oni race and Ran's race)
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on November 23, 2008, 06:18:39 PM
Wasn't episode 33 the Hanawa-sensei episode?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 23, 2008, 06:24:49 PM
yeah, it was, I believe this one is actually 31
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: veehive on November 23, 2008, 10:29:29 PM
Mengo mengo. Episode in question is the first of 4 episodes on the 9th of the AnimEigo U.S.-release DVD discs, so I labeled it number 33. Checking the episode guide here at Lum-chan.com, this episode is listed as #54. How'd you come up with 31?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 23, 2008, 10:45:59 PM
Cause I have them all downloaded and they're numerical so I just know that way ^_^
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: dak on November 24, 2008, 03:29:55 AM
didn't find it in manga, it must be someone's idea not RT's
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 24, 2008, 04:10:29 AM
so can we eliminate that scene as "evidence" ? I never actually thought of it as proof to begin with anyway -_-
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on November 24, 2008, 04:13:00 AM
I would, but I think everyone already knows that I don't consider anything out of the anime as cannon unless it's consistent with what the manga shows.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: dak on November 24, 2008, 04:21:08 AM
so done with it, back to Shinobu, if i correct it has come to her relationship with Ryuu
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: cata on November 24, 2008, 08:25:08 PM
They're a kawaii couple but I have to say that Ryunnosuke and Nagisa (or whatever her name is x_X), the girl with a male chest complete each other.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 24, 2008, 11:17:48 PM
I would, but I think everyone already knows that I don't consider anything out of the anime as cannon unless it's consistent with what the manga shows.
That's why I knew I could count on you t back me up XD
so done with it, back to Shinobu, if i correct it has come to her relationship with Ryuu
Ummm... I wouldn't call that a relationship... I'd say she has/starting to have a relationship with Inaba.
They're a kawaii couple but I have to say that Ryunnosuke and Nagisa (or whatever her name is x_X), the girl with a male chest complete each other.
You refer to Nagisa as female? I thought Nagisa WAS male??
Anyways, I agree that they'd be a good couple.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: SandStorm on November 24, 2008, 11:52:13 PM
nagisa is male.
but, just like ryuu, he got a weird that who want one daughter even if he got a son :P
Well, in the end, ryuu will be a lonely person.
nagisa is indeed a 'ghost' and she finds him creepy :P
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on November 25, 2008, 12:26:26 AM
I have to say that Ryunnosuke and Nagisa

In my opinion, those two are a couple that could never be brought apart. Besides, Ryuunosuke may be a crossdresser, but she's not gay. Shinobu doesn't really show any indication of interest in women either (though I think if any character was going to go gay, it'd be her).


nagisa is indeed a 'ghost' and she finds him creepy :P

Actually, he was brought back to life at the end of his intro story. Go read the comics, their relationship develops a lot more after that.


As far as Shinobu and Ryuunosuke, they're good friends. Probably the closest friends in the series except for maybe Ataru and Mendo (which I would say that they're as good a friends as any two males of their attitude could become).
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 25, 2008, 12:31:43 AM
I still have a few more chapters to read, but I'm close to that one.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: dak on November 25, 2008, 03:10:33 AM
yes, a night just two of them, Nagisa enter the room when Ryuu is changing her clothes - preview for that chapter, figure the rest yourself xD
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on November 25, 2008, 03:38:18 AM
...or you could just download and read Vol 14.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 25, 2008, 04:02:46 AM
Or I could go here which is probably the fastest and easiest way to do it that has just the right amount of laziness accessibility:
http://www.onemanga.com/Urusei_Yatsura/341/01/
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: dak on November 25, 2008, 07:47:29 AM
a lot of different ways to a same destination
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on November 25, 2008, 06:19:19 PM
Options are good. :)
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 25, 2008, 07:21:32 PM
Anyways... which character were we talking about before? Shinobu or Ryuu? (which was the MAIN subject?)
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on November 25, 2008, 08:23:36 PM
Shinobu, I believe...
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: cata on November 25, 2008, 11:37:55 PM
Excuse me but my gaydar tells me this:

Lum - straight
Ataru - Super straight
Megane - straight
Mendou - metrosexual straight
Ran - sexually fluid (which means that she doesn't define herself. she just goes with the flow)
Shinobu - bisexual (I don't know why though =S )
Ryunnosuke - straight
Nagisa - (my bad for mistaking HIM for a HER) straight
Oyuki - gay
Chibi - gay
Perm - straight
Cherry - asexual
Sakura - straight
Tsubame - bisexual
Benten - gay/bisexual
Jariten - straight
Ten's mother - gay
Onsen-Mark - straight

I didn't take these opinions out of any site. It's just what my gaydar tells me. Gaydars aren't 100% accurate and their probability of being accurate vary from person to person.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 25, 2008, 11:57:33 PM
It's just what my gaydar tells me. Gaydars aren't 100% accurate and their probability of being accurate vary from person to person.

so to sum up, it's your opinion XD

cherry asexual XD
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: cata on November 26, 2008, 12:00:19 AM
UruseiNeo, it's not my opinion 100% because people give vibes and those vibes are basically what attracts you to a person and what repulses you from him/her. Those vibes send information and gaydars analyse that information and guess that person sexual orientation.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 26, 2008, 12:18:27 AM
it kinda sounds like opinion but if you say so.

Why is Oyuki, Chibi, and Ten's mom gay?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: cata on November 26, 2008, 12:27:01 AM
it kinda sounds like opinion but if you say so.

Why is Oyuki, Chibi, and Ten's mom gay?

It's the vibe I get from them. x) I don't know why, though. =S
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on November 26, 2008, 01:19:08 AM
Gaydars aren't 100% accurate

I just want to point out how true this is with a rather dramatic example. Despite the fact that I believe everyone is bisexual by nature, and that our sexual tastes develop much like any other tastes, based on experiences, environments, even experimentation (much like our tastes in food, or our senses of humor, or what genres of entertainment we seek), I can proudly claim to be straight. But when I lived in San Francisco, I learned that for some inexplicable reason, I set off gaydar left and right. Maybe it's the long hair, maybe it's the attitude, or the way I carry myself, but people often think I'm gay when the truth is, I just don't find men attractive.

So yeah, gaydar... very unreliable.

And just think how offended any given homosexual would be if a straight man claimed to have gaydar.


That said, I do agree with some of your assessments, though I think more characters are a lot straighter than your gaydar tells you. Examples... Shinobu, which I agree in that I have no idea why but I think she's bisexual. Chibi, I don't know if I'd say gay, but he certainly didn't have a big problem with dressing in drag to be Megane's date in that one episode. Oyuki gay? Not a chance, think back to her first appearance when she was disappointed at how b-Boy had interrupted Ataru's molesting of her. Ten's mother I get more the impression that she's straight, but sworn off men probably because of something involving Ten's father (notice how we've never met him, but he has to exist somewhere). Ran, possibly, but I would be inclined to disagree. Tsubame is a pansy, yes, but doubtful he's gay. Benten, perhaps, but I more get the impression that she's just not interested in anyone (none of the characters would really be her type, except maybe Ryuu, and if Benten were gay, don't you think she would have made a move?).
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 26, 2008, 01:27:10 AM
Benten is tomboyish... kinda... attitude is tomboyish anyway. I think Ten's dad is the one that breathes fire which Ten inherited. And since she hates pyromaniacs so much, that's why he's not around.

I doubt that she was the one with fire breathing cause she's the sister of Lum's mom right? that makes her MORE LIKELY to have electricity though I've never seen her use any powers at all.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on November 26, 2008, 01:43:09 AM
I think Ten's dad is the one that breathes fire which Ten inherited. And since she hates pyromaniacs so much, that's why he's not around.

I agree that Ten probably got the flamethrower breath from his father, but I also think that his father wasn't an Oni, hence why Ten has only one horn, instead of two like all other Oni. But I think Ten's mother's hatred of pyromaniacs was caused by Ten's father leaving, and not the other way around. At least that's my opinion (and how, when I get that far, I'll be writing it in UYRemix).
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 26, 2008, 01:53:46 AM
Oooh, that's a good point with the horn. I wish we had more evidence on the matter though, like maybe if we could find another baby oni and check its horns. Cause my first impression was that he was gonna grow the other horn later on.

Hmmm... in Lum's fantasy world... nvm (that wasn't in the manga *sigh*) screw it, I'm gonna say it anyway. In her dream world there were 3 oni kids and they all had 2 horns! Supposedly the were part Ataru's kids, that would contradict ur idea.

However there are many obvious problems with that example XD
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Kroptik on November 26, 2008, 02:14:11 AM
I think sidzero is right. If you look at anoything related to Lum when she was young (not a baby exactly, but not still matured) she has 2 horns. Althought it's quite hard to find a good shot in the manga, the horn that's easy to see most of the times in sided, while Ten's horn is centered.

Sidzero's theory has a lot going for it. xD
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: cata on November 26, 2008, 02:51:25 AM
Just one more thing about gaydars: only GLBT have it because it's kind of our "tool" to find people that understand us and won't judge us.

About Oyuki's gayness: even though Oyuki didn't bother at all being under Ataru (sexually) it doesn't mean that she is straight. There are lots of people that are inside the closet and act all straight around people. Oyuki is hard to make her mad and I think she's too goddamn peaceful, sometimes. Therefore, just because she didn't reject a male, it doesn't mean she accepted him. BUT I made a mistake on my list, I forgot about other sexual orientation which is called bicuriosity. A bicurious person is someone that could be either gay or straight but has curiosity for experimenting with people of the other/same gender (depending on the person's orientation). I think Oyuki is bicurious, in her case I think she's gay with curiosity for straight intercourse.

Ten's mother: It's quite obvious that to have a baby, we need a woman and a man. But they don't need to be in a relationship or to love each other. Ten's mother could have been molested and got pregnant from it. There are lots of gay women that got pregnant from men just to be parents because government wouldn't allow them (gay women) to adopt. There are a few gay men cases that kept kids from a female friend of theirs, aswell. This is just to name a few examples of what might happened.

Ran: Well, to be honest my gaydar was like "undefined" because we only know that she likes Rei BUT to achieve her goals she doesn't mind kissing girls and I doubt that she would refused to go any further with one or more. Therefore, I wrote "sexually fluid" because she goes with the flow that suits her (her evil and romantic objectives).

Tsubame: I didn't say he was GAY. I said he was BISEXUAL. They're different. xD He loves Sakura but we don't know about his past. What we know is a bit of his personality which is shy, funny, unlucky, etc. I don't know if it's because of his style and the way that the character fits in the story but I just get the feeling that he's bisexual.

Benten: I doubt she's gay because in an episode Benten thought Ryuu was a boy and she (Ryuu) was acting kind of shy and nervous around Benten. Benten was feeling excited just to think that Ryuu could like her. But when Benten realized Ryuu was indeed a girl, her excitement faded away, which could mean she is straight but, as I said earlier in this post, she could be aswell hiding her emotions towards a girl. When Ran kissed her, Benten didn't pushed her away or ran from the kiss. It couldn't mean anything but I can't be convinced of it.

Tomboy isn't the same as lesbian. Watch out for the steretypes.

Now... About Ten's horn... I have one theory but I need some help. Lum as a kid had 2 horns right? Ten has only one. Rei, which is a male oni has 2. BUT if someone could post a Rei as a kid screenshot we could see if there's a difference between male and female horns.

OMG! I don't think I've written this much ever!
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 26, 2008, 03:19:48 AM
Tomboy isn't the same as lesbian. Watch out for the steretypes.

that was actually my point lol
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on November 26, 2008, 05:07:21 AM
Sidzero's theory has a lot going for it. xD

If nothing else, I got creative license going for me.


Just one more thing about gaydars: only GLBT have it because it's kind of our "tool" to find people that understand us and won't judge us.

So much for fairness and equality, huh? To say someone can't do, or have, something cause they're straight is discrimination. And isn't it a little hypocritical to say you develop gaydar so you can find people who won't judge you, when that's exactly what your gaydar is doing... judging people? It's prejudice either way, and isn't that something we should ALL be fighting?

But if we take this conversation much further down this path, I assure you, it's going to get ugly. So perhaps we should take it away from judging characters as gay or straight when really, it's irrelevant. The rest of you can discuss gay and straight all you want, but I'm staying away from it now. I've had my last word on the matter.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 26, 2008, 05:19:22 AM
I'm Christian but I am for Gay marriage cause I like to be fair and to ban gay marriage would be... well it wouldn't be fair XD They may as well ban straight marriage too.

Anyways so we were talking about... Shinobu? Okay, can we safely say she's at least starting a relationship with Inaba?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on November 26, 2008, 07:46:00 AM
She's starting a relationship, but something tells me it won't last. Although I seem to recall discussing my opinions on that before.


Oh, and to go back to an earlier subject... To everyone that was trying to say Ran was an Oni, I ask you, if she's an Oni, how come she was never a participant in any of the Setsubun games? (It only just hit me, or else I would have mentioned it sooner.)
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: dak on November 26, 2008, 08:57:32 AM
i thought we have put a end to that subject :?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 26, 2008, 04:16:30 PM
good point with setsubun.

Is there anything else about shinobu we need to talk about?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on November 26, 2008, 07:04:53 PM
i thought we have put a end to that subject :?

We did, but if there are still any dissidents and dissenters out there, I wanted to put them in their place. :)


Did we cover what the possible source of Shinobu's immense Hulk-strength (you wouldn't like her when she gets angry) might be? At least in this thread, have we?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Kroptik on November 26, 2008, 11:34:59 PM
That's something pretty hard to explain. How does a sweet looking girl with no visible big mustles gets all that strenght when she's angry (mostly something about men, usually influenced by Ataru)?

There's something important here though. While in the beginning of the show it leads us to believe that she always had her supernatural strenght (because all boys seem to fear her when she's getting mad), then how come in the movie where Lum dissapears she seems to lose it? Is it realted to the aliens or not?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on November 26, 2008, 11:45:46 PM
In the comics, she didn't seem to have it at the beginning. I believe the first time where she displayed such an abnormal feat of strength in the comics was in the story where Lum was pretending to be an Earth-girl after Ataru confronted Shinobu about her relationship with Mendo.

But it's possible it was always there, but just not shown before then, because the boys are often surprised at Ataru's ability to withstand her attacks. Personally, I'm inclined to believe it has nothing to do with the aliens in her life.

I really have no explanation for her strength. If I were going to just make something up, I'd say she's a descendant of the Kintaro of Japanese folklore (as opposed to the little brat from outer space that makes friends with Ten). The fact that she often gets compared to him would only serve to reinforce that idea, but like I said, I'm just making it up, there's no other indication for any explanation.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: FallinG_StaR on November 27, 2008, 10:31:32 AM
Its proven that a person when in rage can lift up to the double of what you normally would...

Ex: Mr. Q can normally lift 70Kg but after seeing his girlfriend kissing another guy he goes in rampage mode and picks up the other guy Scooter (+/- 130Kg) and trows its into the nearest fountain...

You know that our body is able to do much more than you expect... but like the big V8 engines our power is controlled/limited "electronically" by the brain... so we don't damage our muscles or joints...
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: sidzero on November 27, 2008, 06:56:19 PM
It isn't necessarily just a rage that can give you that extra kick of ability. It's any time you got adrenaline flowing through your body.

But the kind of strength Shinobu displays compared to a normal person is still rather extreme. If we were to say it was adrenaline that causes the strength, then she would have to be rather strong in the first place. Certainly a lot stronger than her slender (as opposed to muscular) figure would suggest. Which leaves us still with the original question... how is she so strong?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Kroptik on November 28, 2008, 12:36:05 AM
It is said that humans can only use 10% of their muscular strenght. This is because the brain "tells us" to, otherwise our muscles would be torn before we knew it.
So if we take that as true, it's quite possible for Shinobu to have that abnormal strenght if she can use 100% musuclar capacity.

The question about this is why does her rage have the effect of blocking the brain's signal on muscular restrain? Maybe some experience with someone of the male gender (which is what nearly always makes her mad) that happened in the past?
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: UruseiNeo on November 28, 2008, 12:49:19 AM
I think we've crossed this path before, where I responded with "Urusei Yatsura is not meant to make sense in any of those categories. In fact a lot of episodes are unresolved. "

basically, there doesn't need to be an explanation for everything that goes on in UY. I believe one or two of the extended anime laws covers this.
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: FallinG_StaR on November 28, 2008, 01:31:34 AM
Yes... funny animes are made to make no sense at all...

Btw, why do they bleed from the nose when they see something erotic???

If that would of happen to me I would be dead along time ago... I would bleed out... XD... Damn internet... XD
Title: Re: Character Discussion and Defining
Post by: Takaholic on October 20, 2012, 06:43:51 PM
I don't know where anyone gets the idea that Shinobu and Inaba would break up.  The (as of yet) non-animated manga story "The Flower of Love and Courage" pretty much cements their relationship, and Shinbou learns that no matter what, Inaba would do anything for her, and is not in the least as manipulative as the other boys in her life have been.

In my own fanfic series, it turns out that Shinobu is actually adopted, and isn't originally from Tomobiki.  You can blame my old friend Lew Burden for implanting that idea in my mind while reading his fanfic "UY Goes to Hell" at:
http://sakurambo.sandwich.net/fanfiction/hell.txt